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Apple only wanted to scan files on your device once you decide to upload it. In other words, if you don't ever actually upload anything nothing would ever be sc

Apple only wanted to scan files on your device once you decide to upload it. In other words, if you don't ever actually upload anything nothing would ever be scanned.

vorpalhex 4y ago
That upload that is the only way to load data onto your phone for many apps, that the phone is auto-opted into and that only Apple can offer? That one? The one that literally no competitor can replace since it uses special Apple entitlements?
- endisneigh 4y ago
  I'm not sure what you're talking about? iOS has implemented interfaces to use things like Google Drive, One Drive, Dropbox, etc, baked into the file system.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    1. There is no filesystem (exposed), there are per-app sandboxes with the ability to move files from another sandbox 2. It only allows single file actions, no sync/offline cache/etc. Most apps don't meaningfully work well with this - there is no "sync these ten comics to this device at all times" Most apps still only use their local file sandbox.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Any application that saves files using the standard file selector allows you to choose any installed storage solution.
smoldesu 4y ago
Nobody is mad about cloud providers scanning for objectionable content. Everyone is mad because Apple is using the hardware you payed for to perform an operation you're paying them to provide. It's like paying for an API that gives you the weather, and all the endpoint returns is a system call for your phone's thermometer. It goes to show that Apple isn't afraid to undermine their own experience to implement adversarial software services. Combined with the way they "respect" the privacy of Chinese citizens, I don't think Apple actually cares about our privacy. It would seem that instead they're testing the waters for more radical changes[0], like using on-device machine learning to detect suicidal users or terrorists. And who's going to object when that happens, right? [0] Source: the past century of US political discourse.
- astrange 4y ago
  The guy who had his Google account deleted for sending pictures of his children to his doctor is definitely upset about cloud providers scanning his content!
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I'm sure he is, but rules are rules. Google cannot store that content for any purpose whatsoever: there are very specific regulatory standards in place for storing medical data, and Google Drive/iCloud doesn't comply with those standards. They (both!) go as far as to tell you that in the EULA, so the context of the situation doesn't even matter in the first place. The more bothersome thing (to me) is client-side scanning. Apple is setting a precedent that allows any first-party manufacturer to work against the user's interests as long as there's a large enough common enemy. It should go without saying, but that's a horrible idea! If Google were doing the same thing on their Pixel phones, I'd be slamming them equally as hard. It's simply depressing to watch a company claim they know best, while proceeding to use your phone to run their regulatory compliance code.
    - astrange 4y ago
      Taking a picture of something on your own phone is not "medical data" and they weren't doing ToS compliance, they were scanning for novel CSAM in a way they're not required to, reported it to the police, and now are refusing to undelete his account because of their never give anyone customer service policy. (Even if you took a picture to send to your doctor through an encrypted app, it just has to end up in the photo library to be cloud synced, unless you remember to hand delete it.)
- endisneigh 4y ago
  Not sure what the distinction is. Either Apple uses the hardware you paid for to scan [before uploading] or uses the service you paid for [during upload] to scan. The practical difference is nil. The fact of the matter is, either way, if you don't upload you won't be scanned, if you do upload you will be. End result is the same regardless of whether you use OneDrive, Box, Dropbox or Google Drive (who all implement CSAM scanning)

Apple only wanted to scan files on your device once you decide to upload it. In other words, if you don't ever actually upload anything nothing would ever be scanned.

vorpalhex 4y ago

That upload that is the only way to load data onto your phone for many apps, that the phone is auto-opted into and that only Apple can offer? That one? The one that literally no competitor can replace since it uses special Apple entitlements?

endisneigh 4y ago
I'm not sure what you're talking about? iOS has implemented interfaces to use things like Google Drive, One Drive, Dropbox, etc, baked into the file system.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  1. There is no filesystem (exposed), there are per-app sandboxes with the ability to move files from another sandbox 2. It only allows single file actions, no sync/offline cache/etc. Most apps don't meaningfully work well with this - there is no "sync these ten comics to this device at all times" Most apps still only use their local file sandbox.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Any application that saves files using the standard file selector allows you to choose any installed storage solution.

smoldesu 4y ago

Nobody is mad about cloud providers scanning for objectionable content. Everyone is mad because Apple is using the hardware you payed for to perform an operation you're paying them to provide. It's like paying for an API that gives you the weather, and all the endpoint returns is a system call for your phone's thermometer. It goes to show that Apple isn't afraid to undermine their own experience to implement adversarial software services. Combined with the way they "respect" the privacy of Chinese citizens, I don't think Apple actually cares about our privacy. It would seem that instead they're testing the waters for more radical changes[0], like using on-device machine learning to detect suicidal users or terrorists. And who's going to object when that happens, right? [0] Source: the past century of US political discourse.

astrange 4y ago
The guy who had his Google account deleted for sending pictures of his children to his doctor is definitely upset about cloud providers scanning his content!
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I'm sure he is, but rules are rules. Google cannot store that content for any purpose whatsoever: there are very specific regulatory standards in place for storing medical data, and Google Drive/iCloud doesn't comply with those standards. They (both!) go as far as to tell you that in the EULA, so the context of the situation doesn't even matter in the first place. The more bothersome thing (to me) is client-side scanning. Apple is setting a precedent that allows any first-party manufacturer to work against the user's interests as long as there's a large enough common enemy. It should go without saying, but that's a horrible idea! If Google were doing the same thing on their Pixel phones, I'd be slamming them equally as hard. It's simply depressing to watch a company claim they know best, while proceeding to use your phone to run their regulatory compliance code.
  - astrange 4y ago
    Taking a picture of something on your own phone is not "medical data" and they weren't doing ToS compliance, they were scanning for novel CSAM in a way they're not required to, reported it to the police, and now are refusing to undelete his account because of their never give anyone customer service policy. (Even if you took a picture to send to your doctor through an encrypted app, it just has to end up in the photo library to be cloud synced, unless you remember to hand delete it.)
endisneigh 4y ago
Not sure what the distinction is. Either Apple uses the hardware you paid for to scan [before uploading] or uses the service you paid for [during upload] to scan. The practical difference is nil. The fact of the matter is, either way, if you don't upload you won't be scanned, if you do upload you will be. End result is the same regardless of whether you use OneDrive, Box, Dropbox or Google Drive (who all implement CSAM scanning)