4 ms·

There is something of the meta-humanity going on here. These illustrations are drawn from hundreds of years of human effort, and are being used to enhance our

There is something of the meta-humanity going on here. These illustrations are drawn from hundreds of years of human effort, and are being used to enhance our enjoyment of these stories. But it is only possible because of the prior human work. It's a little like copying the work of hundreds of other artists at once. Index funds bother me in the same way as in at some point the price discovery mechanism ought to break as everyone just uses one corpus. All in all, this is an amazing idea, enabled by the work of amazing people, and it is like looking at something significant - I just don't know what :-)

hydrolox 4y ago
can you explain the index funds line
- nuclearnice3 4y ago
  I think the notion is the index fund is simply buying a stock because it has a certain market cap. It is not evaluating the fundamentals of the company. The algorithmic art is similar in the sense that it is an averaging of previous effort. People made art and it was fed into the algorithm. The algorithm is some weighting of the art it was fed. Analogously, people who thought about companies bought and sold the stock. It landed at some price. The index fund just followed that. There has been criticism of index funds [1] and defense [2] as far as price discovery. Other people have raised the possibility that an index fund holding large amounts of competitor companies is an antitrust issue. [3] [1] https://www.ft.com/content/87a3b117-7085-40f4-8cca-66bb8353c971 https://www.ft.com/content/87a3b117-7085-40f4-8cca-66bb8353c... [2] https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/literature/whitepaper/policy-spotlight-index-investing-supports-price-discovery-april-2019.pdf https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/literature/whitepaper/po... [3] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/04/why-common-ownership-is-not-an-antitrust-problem/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/04/why-common-owners...
bheadmaster 4y ago
Human learning itself is a little like copying the work of hundreds of other artists at once.
whycombinetor 4y ago
Index funds hold underlying assets under management... You are paying for a slice of the underlying assets... All slices of the pie are accounted for and it doesn't create anything new. Not sure how that relates to machines reproducing human creative efforts.
- dehrmann 4y ago
  The gripe with index funds is that they wouldn't work if everyone used them.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    With a strong rule of law, they probably would.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      What does a strong rule of law have to do with it? The issue is that index funds depend on there being a price discovery mechanism on the underlying equities. If no one were buying and selling individual equities there would be no price discovery.
  - ape4 4y ago
    The DOW 30 has 30 successful companies in it. If one of these companies falters it will be removed from the index and replaced by an up-and-coming company. It would be there even if people invested or not.
    - scarmig 4y ago
      How does a company faltering or succeeding end up being reflected in its membership of the Dow? If relative shifts in stock price are the main causal mechanism, then that's exactly the issue: universal passive index investing (roughly) means that there won't be relative shifts in price.
  - skybrian 4y ago
samstave 4y ago
There is a deeper question here ;; - At what point will we doubt reality and truth in favor of the AI provisioned one? We talk about singularity being an AI that surpasses human int... but its goig to happen much sooner and via a diff vector, such as AI images. the fucking speech by biden the other day looked like a deep fak to me - his mouth flapping was way exaggerated, and the fact that he could hold a salient sentence were the tells... singularity isnt about AI being able to fool us that hte __*AI*__ is a human - its that we FOOL OURSELVES... So I think that the whole AI art thing is going to make reality so elastic in our minds that it will be likea dream, and we litereally cannot trust a single fucking thing online. period.
- noworriesnate 4y ago
  Along the same lines, I was thinking this morning that we might soon have revenge-as-a-service where you can generate fake, "incriminating" news stories at the click of a button. Did Joe leave a lot of hate behind when he quit his job? An unscrupulous boss can generate fake news stories on random news sites (just plug in the locality name, e.g. "cnnbostonarchives.org"). Future potential employers will be shocked to learn that Joe raped and massacred 300 puppies, with lots of realistic pictures of Joe in line with the story. Most people won't have stories like this generated about them, only the ones who have enough haters.
  - samstave 4y ago
    AI as a service is coming... if not hear - there were talks about AI voice manip such that they changed accents. AI is going to kill the HUMANITY. (this is a phrase that one should all know... HUMANITY) AI is killing it. and gues who is trying to own AI - fucking pedo-financial-hedge-funds
- spyder 4y ago
  Yea, same thing happens after reading the subreddit where all posts and comments are generated by GPT-2: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2/ If you read it too much, and go back to normal human forums you will wonder if they're also generated by AI or if we are all just AI generated bots on the internet :-O
13of40 4y ago
I wonder how far you could go generating tons of images from human art "feedstock", having people select the best 0.1% of them, then using them as input for another round, and so on. Then replace the people with another AI whose job it is to grade aesthetics of an image somehow, for a fully closed loop. Edit: In other words... 1. Train your stable diffusion model using a corpus of normal human images. 2. Use the model to generate thousands of images. 3. Use human analysts to train another AI how to find "good" images in that set. 4. Generate ten million stable diffusion images. 5. Use the other AI to find the "good" ones. 6. Use those to train another stable diffusion model. 7. Goto 4. (You lose some information each iteration, though, so it would probably eventually converge to grey goo or millions of pictures of Agent Smith.)
- spyder 4y ago
  The creators of stable diffusion and others are already doing that. https://paperswithcode.com/dataset/simulacra-aesthetic-captions https://paperswithcode.com/dataset/simulacra-aesthetic-capti... https://github.com/LAION-AI/laion-datasets/blob/main/laion-aesthetic.md https://github.com/LAION-AI/laion-datasets/blob/main/laion-a...
- nuclearnice3 4y ago
  I like it. Your methodology seems analogous to a GAN [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_adversarial_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_adversarial_network
IAmGraydon 4y ago
>Index funds bother me in the same way as in at some point the price discovery mechanism ought to break as everyone just uses one corpus. I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that index funds are driving individual equities? If so, why do you think that? Because of broad market correlation?
- icambron 4y ago
  The idea here is that if everyone is just holding index funds that follow the market, no one is responding to external signals to drive prices to any particular value. Index funds follow the market, but what does the market follow if all the equities are held by index funds? It’s a great metaphor for what could happen if there’s no new art coming from outside the model; everything get stuck (though I’m not sure I agree, tbh, humans are just pattern-matching robots too and it seems to have worked ok)
spyder 4y ago
Almost all modern thing is "from hundreds of years of human effort" and "only possible because of the prior human work", even humans themselves.

hydrolox 4y ago

can you explain the index funds line

nuclearnice3 4y ago
I think the notion is the index fund is simply buying a stock because it has a certain market cap. It is not evaluating the fundamentals of the company. The algorithmic art is similar in the sense that it is an averaging of previous effort. People made art and it was fed into the algorithm. The algorithm is some weighting of the art it was fed. Analogously, people who thought about companies bought and sold the stock. It landed at some price. The index fund just followed that. There has been criticism of index funds [1] and defense [2] as far as price discovery. Other people have raised the possibility that an index fund holding large amounts of competitor companies is an antitrust issue. [3] [1] https://www.ft.com/content/87a3b117-7085-40f4-8cca-66bb8353c971 https://www.ft.com/content/87a3b117-7085-40f4-8cca-66bb8353c... [2] https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/literature/whitepaper/policy-spotlight-index-investing-supports-price-discovery-april-2019.pdf https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/literature/whitepaper/po... [3] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/04/why-common-ownership-is-not-an-antitrust-problem/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2018/12/04/why-common-owners...

bheadmaster 4y ago

Human learning itself is a little like copying the work of hundreds of other artists at once.

whycombinetor 4y ago

Index funds hold underlying assets under management... You are paying for a slice of the underlying assets... All slices of the pie are accounted for and it doesn't create anything new. Not sure how that relates to machines reproducing human creative efforts.

dehrmann 4y ago
The gripe with index funds is that they wouldn't work if everyone used them.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  With a strong rule of law, they probably would.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    What does a strong rule of law have to do with it? The issue is that index funds depend on there being a price discovery mechanism on the underlying equities. If no one were buying and selling individual equities there would be no price discovery.
- ape4 4y ago
  The DOW 30 has 30 successful companies in it. If one of these companies falters it will be removed from the index and replaced by an up-and-coming company. It would be there even if people invested or not.
  - scarmig 4y ago
    How does a company faltering or succeeding end up being reflected in its membership of the Dow? If relative shifts in stock price are the main causal mechanism, then that's exactly the issue: universal passive index investing (roughly) means that there won't be relative shifts in price.
- skybrian 4y ago

samstave 4y ago

There is a deeper question here ;; - At what point will we doubt reality and truth in favor of the AI provisioned one? We talk about singularity being an AI that surpasses human int... but its goig to happen much sooner and via a diff vector, such as AI images. the fucking speech by biden the other day looked like a deep fak to me - his mouth flapping was way exaggerated, and the fact that he could hold a salient sentence were the tells... singularity isnt about AI being able to fool us that hte __*AI*__ is a human - its that we FOOL OURSELVES... So I think that the whole AI art thing is going to make reality so elastic in our minds that it will be likea dream, and we litereally cannot trust a single fucking thing online. period.

noworriesnate 4y ago
Along the same lines, I was thinking this morning that we might soon have revenge-as-a-service where you can generate fake, "incriminating" news stories at the click of a button. Did Joe leave a lot of hate behind when he quit his job? An unscrupulous boss can generate fake news stories on random news sites (just plug in the locality name, e.g. "cnnbostonarchives.org"). Future potential employers will be shocked to learn that Joe raped and massacred 300 puppies, with lots of realistic pictures of Joe in line with the story. Most people won't have stories like this generated about them, only the ones who have enough haters.
- samstave 4y ago
  AI as a service is coming... if not hear - there were talks about AI voice manip such that they changed accents. AI is going to kill the HUMANITY. (this is a phrase that one should all know... HUMANITY) AI is killing it. and gues who is trying to own AI - fucking pedo-financial-hedge-funds
spyder 4y ago
Yea, same thing happens after reading the subreddit where all posts and comments are generated by GPT-2: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2/ If you read it too much, and go back to normal human forums you will wonder if they're also generated by AI or if we are all just AI generated bots on the internet :-O

13of40 4y ago

I wonder how far you could go generating tons of images from human art "feedstock", having people select the best 0.1% of them, then using them as input for another round, and so on. Then replace the people with another AI whose job it is to grade aesthetics of an image somehow, for a fully closed loop. Edit: In other words... 1. Train your stable diffusion model using a corpus of normal human images. 2. Use the model to generate thousands of images. 3. Use human analysts to train another AI how to find "good" images in that set. 4. Generate ten million stable diffusion images. 5. Use the other AI to find the "good" ones. 6. Use those to train another stable diffusion model. 7. Goto 4. (You lose some information each iteration, though, so it would probably eventually converge to grey goo or millions of pictures of Agent Smith.)

spyder 4y ago
The creators of stable diffusion and others are already doing that. https://paperswithcode.com/dataset/simulacra-aesthetic-captions https://paperswithcode.com/dataset/simulacra-aesthetic-capti... https://github.com/LAION-AI/laion-datasets/blob/main/laion-aesthetic.md https://github.com/LAION-AI/laion-datasets/blob/main/laion-a...
nuclearnice3 4y ago
I like it. Your methodology seems analogous to a GAN [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_adversarial_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_adversarial_network

IAmGraydon 4y ago

>Index funds bother me in the same way as in at some point the price discovery mechanism ought to break as everyone just uses one corpus. I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that index funds are driving individual equities? If so, why do you think that? Because of broad market correlation?

icambron 4y ago
The idea here is that if everyone is just holding index funds that follow the market, no one is responding to external signals to drive prices to any particular value. Index funds follow the market, but what does the market follow if all the equities are held by index funds? It’s a great metaphor for what could happen if there’s no new art coming from outside the model; everything get stuck (though I’m not sure I agree, tbh, humans are just pattern-matching robots too and it seems to have worked ok)

spyder 4y ago

Almost all modern thing is "from hundreds of years of human effort" and "only possible because of the prior human work", even humans themselves.