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So where do we go from here? I have a Samsung Galaxy S9 at the moment, but Samsung's typo-filled changelogs don't exactly inspire confidence. It has also been
by Tijdreiziger 4y ago
So where do we go from here?
I have a Samsung Galaxy S9 at the moment, but Samsung's typo-filled changelogs don't exactly inspire confidence. It has also been bugging me to accept the new Samsung Account terms, which I don't want to do.
Chinese brands (Huawei, Xiaomi, Motorola, etc.) don't inspire confidence for me either.
Apple had the CSAM scanning controversy. I have an iPad, but a bunch of features I didn't want were turned on by default, and the walled garden approach is obviously a downside.
I would prefer to run a privacy-focused Android distribution, but I have a lot of apps and I don't know how much they depend on Google Play Services, so I don't really want to switch over 'cold turkey'. Also, they're still built on the same AOSP base, so who's to say they don't have the same bugs?
- gfd 4y agoI didn't consider Motorola a Chinese brand but apparently they were sold by Google to Lenovo in 2014 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Mobility https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Mobility
- happyopossum 4y ago> Apple had the CSAM scanning controversy. You mean like Google’s recent CSAM controversy? At least Apple never proposed using ML to find new CSAM and report you to the police with a single violation…
- vetinari 4y agoNo, he meant Apple's CSAM controversy. Apple wanted to scan files on your device, while Google scans stuff you upload to their cloud.
- Spooky23 4y agoNot really. It was a controversy created by a poorly written Apple press release that unveiled two distinct features, and subsequently ginned up by an even worse EFF blog post. CSAM scanning was all about iCloud, just like every other vendor, and the benefit was a roadmap to E2E storage. The more confusing thing was the explicit content notifications for parents for their minor children in family plans. So instead, just like everyone else, you almost certainly have CSAM scanning happening in iCloud directly. All of your content is just a subpoena away. Thanks EFF.
- vetinari 4y agoRunning this kind of stuff is already leg in the door. Next they can decide to scan your device even, if you don't upload anything anywhere. For your safety, of course, you might be in a possession of an objectionable material, like photos of MAGA hats or other extremist paraphernalia. So this is a big red line. If you want to upload to iCloud, ok, scanning there is a fair game and you can always not upload to iCloud. But your device should be your device, respecting your privacy.
- Spooky23 4y agoMy minor child’s device is my device. As a parent, I may want to opt into a service on my managed, family device so I know my child’s fellow 9th grader girlfriend is sending pictures that may be a crime to possess, or vice versa. That is exactly what Apple did. Like I said, you’re conflating two things that are not the same, because you’ve been fed a steady diet of bad information stemming from Apples unusually poor communications and the EFFs inaccurate blog post.
- endisneigh 4y agoApple only wanted to scan files on your device once you decide to upload it. In other words, if you don't ever actually upload anything nothing would ever be scanned.
- vorpalhex 4y agoThat upload that is the only way to load data onto your phone for many apps, that the phone is auto-opted into and that only Apple can offer? That one? The one that literally no competitor can replace since it uses special Apple entitlements?
- endisneigh 4y agoI'm not sure what you're talking about? iOS has implemented interfaces to use things like Google Drive, One Drive, Dropbox, etc, baked into the file system.
- vorpalhex 4y ago1. There is no filesystem (exposed), there are per-app sandboxes with the ability to move files from another sandbox 2. It only allows single file actions, no sync/offline cache/etc. Most apps don't meaningfully work well with this - there is no "sync these ten comics to this device at all times" Most apps still only use their local file sandbox.
- scarface74 4y agoAny application that saves files using the standard file selector allows you to choose any installed storage solution.
- smoldesu 4y agoNobody is mad about cloud providers scanning for objectionable content. Everyone is mad because Apple is using the hardware you payed for to perform an operation you're paying them to provide. It's like paying for an API that gives you the weather, and all the endpoint returns is a system call for your phone's thermometer. It goes to show that Apple isn't afraid to undermine their own experience to implement adversarial software services. Combined with the way they "respect" the privacy of Chinese citizens, I don't think Apple actually cares about our privacy. It would seem that instead they're testing the waters for more radical changes[0], like using on-device machine learning to detect suicidal users or terrorists. And who's going to object when that happens, right? [0] Source: the past century of US political discourse.
- anonuser123456 4y agoApple scans files on your device to compare against known CSAM content. Google scans your content for potential CSAM based on AI. One can imagine the false positive rate for the Google approach is likely higher.
- vetinari 4y agoApple scans files on your device, using your resources (storage, compute, power). Google scans files on their devices, using their resources (storage, compute power). It is you who decided to upload files to Google's cloud. However, it is difficult to use your own device if you don't have privacy there.
- anonuser123456 4y agoThe feature Apple proposed would only apply to files you were uploading to iCloud. Turning off iCloud photos prevented scanning. The whole point of the Apple system was to enable end to end encryption so Apple couldn’t view your data on their servers. The only way they could get access is when a threshold of CSAM likely files were met. e.g the keys are sharded. With the Apple approach you have considerably more privacy.
- vetinari 4y agoFor now. The foot would be in door to enable it system-wide.
- anonuser123456 4y agoWhy would they care about getting a foot in a door that they have the keys to and is wide open? Modern SoCs have security domains that are invisible to the main CPUs. Apple can run just about anything it wants on the security coprocessor and users will be none the wiser. The American DOJ, FBI etc do not want end-to-end encryption and use ‘think of the children’ as an excuse. This gives Apple the plausible pushback to say ‘We have thought of the children…’
- BeetleB 4y ago> Chinese brands (Huawei, Xiaomi, Motorola, etc.) don't inspire confidence for me either. Have you considered OnePlus? Their cameras aren't the best, but they're usually as good as the other top brands in everything else.
- er888kh 4y agoI haven't owned one of their devices, but it seems like Linus[1] is not satisfied with their current situation. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GNoelvk6S4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GNoelvk6S4
- BeetleB 4y agoYikes! I have a OnePlus 5T that I'm very happy with. Amusingly I was thinking of getting a Pixel 6 until I saw this thread, and thought "Oh well, back to OnePlus." Now I don't know what to get.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoIs Pixel hardware the problem? Or untested buggy Google shovel-ware?
- BeetleB 4y agoI would argue the value add of the Pixel 6 is the proprietary Google SW. I was considering the Pixel 6 only for its photo abilities, and a lot of those are via Google SW - not fantastic lenses/processors. If I replace it with a custom ROM, the OnePlus is probably a better device (faster processor, etc). If the Google SW is so buggy, there's no compelling reason to buy one just because of the HW.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoGrapheneOS.org, CalyxOS.org, et al
- Spooky23 4y agoJust get an iPhone. They are for better or worse the BlackBerry of the 2020s. Samsung is the only rival in terms of hardware. Google lacks the attention span to execute. Everything else is even less baked. I’d experiment with nerdy Android distros with a tablet. I used to have a Linux smartphone (whose name escapes me, which is driving me nuts) back in like 2006/7, it was fun but not a “daily driver”.
- robin_reala 4y agoProbably an Openmoko Neo 1973?
- LegitShady 4y agoBecause I want to use a browser with Adblock and iOS won't let me, so it's ruled out from the start. Why would I settle for an expensive device that makes browsing the internet painful? Why would I limit myself to only the software apple will approve? It isn't even in the running and as long as their software policies remain as is, won't be in the running.
- zibby8 4y agoiOS supports ad-blockers in Safari.
- layer8 4y agoThere are adblocker extensions (aka “content blockers”) on iOS that work very well. This has been the case since iOS 9 IIRC, so seven years ago.
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoIt only supports ‘Chrome Manifest v3’-style ‘simple’ blocking lists, not ‘true’ adblockers. These mostly work fine but are clearly less powerful. They also don’t work with non-Safari browsers (e.g. Firefox).
- 4y ago
- whimsicalism 4y agoIf you want good stock Android phones, I believe Pixel & Chinese brands are only game in town.
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoI don't really care about 'stock', tbh. It just needs to run the apps I want to run, and it's nice if it can also take decent photos. I would also strongly prefer for it to preserve my privacy, but I realize that's kind of a wash between Google and Apple.
- andybak 4y ago> but I realize that's kind of a wash between Google and Apple. That's an unusual take.
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoHow so? Google collects more data in absolute terms, but Apple collects quite a lot of data too. Neither of them can be said to be a truly privacy-conscious choice. See the following reference: Leith, D. J. (2021). Mobile Handset Privacy: Measuring The Data iOS and Android Send to Apple And Google. URL: https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf
- andybak 4y agoYou originally said "it's kind of a wash between [them]". I think most enquiring minds would disagree that there isn't much between them on this matter. You're staking out a fairly extreme stance on this topic. Nothing wrong with that - but don't sound surprised when people disagree.
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoWell, which one of the two do you consider particularly privacy-preserving? Referencing the paper I linked, they both collect IMEIs, hardware serial numbers, SIM serial numbers, phone numbers, device IDs, telemetry, cookies, and MAC addresses of nearby devices. iOS additionally collects your location and local IP address. All this data is transmitted even when opted out of telemetry.
- vorpalhex 4y agoNokia. Hardware runs a gen behind but it's fine enough with stock android.
- pid-1 4y agoIf you want a premium phone, Apple is pretty much unchallenged. I'm not a fan of expensive phones though - I'm scared I will break it and lose $700+ in the blink of an eye. Been using cheap Motorolas for the past 10 years, no complains.
- devoutsalsa 4y agoFor the iPhone, you can always buy two generations back to save a few bucks. I bought an iPhone 11 a couple months ago for $499 plus tax and it’s a perfectly good phone.
- Throwawayaerlei 4y agoIf you're really on a budget you can probably go back even more generations and get both an acceptable phone and one that'll get updates for some time. Which are probably more important for iOS because it's such a single big target compared to the fragmented Android world. I'm currently using an iPhone 6s I got in February 2020 for $200 from my Consumer Cellular MVNO which unlocks it after 6 months. One thing you'll lose with the older phones sooner than iOS updates is AppleCare support, but if you get a good bargain to begin with....
- allset_ 4y agoWhen you do that you're also buying into a phone that will stop receiving security updates sooner since iPhones receive updates for ~5 years after they're released.
- stu2b50 4y agoI wouldn’t really worry about that. Apple has been very good at giving security patches to old devices. Just a few days ago they pushed a security patch for iPhones as old as the 5S https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/23/apple-releases-ios-12-5-5-for-older-iphones-and-ipads-with-important-security-updates/amp/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/23/apple-releases-ios-12-5-5-for...
- macintux 4y ago
- er888kh 4y agoJust look for a phone on which you can easily install a stable custom ROM. I previously had a Samsung device and installed Lineage OS and was happy-ish. It was clean and free of bloatware, fast, and had a good battery life. The downside was that it wasn't stable (probably never got an uptime above 48h) and the major updates were too buggy and too late. I recently bought a Xiaomi device. The moment you turn it on you notice it's filled with spyware and bloatware. I thought I couldn't be more surprised after seeing the clock app ask for permission for "personalized experience", but they got me, in the calculator app. Other than that, the hardware is great, the themes look good, and overall it's a good experience. It's a pity I'd have to switch to a custom ROM because of this "personalized experience" MIUI nonsense.
- kelnos 4y agoThe problem is that anyone who wants to use Google Pay or banking apps, or anything that requires the phone to pass SafetyNet, will not be able to use an alternative ROM. Right now that's the only thing stopping me from getting a phone with a shitty "skinned" version of Android, as I can't replace the factory OS without losing a ton of functionality I rely on.
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoGoogle Pay doesn’t respect your privacy anyway, as the terms state that Google can use your transaction data to profile you.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoYou realize that all electronic payments are used to profile you.
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoEven if that’s true, why would you add another party (i.e. Google) to that chain?
- mFixman 4y agoMy Galaxy S21 is the best phone I've ever had. I didn't install any new firmware or anything that requires rooting and I never had a problem not accepting Samsung's terms. Everything that matters works: the phone is fast, never crashes, and you can install browsers with AdBlock.
- staindk 4y agoIf I had the money I'd probably get one of the more expensive Sony phones. They seem great, at least in theory.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago> So where do we go from here? GrapheneOS.org
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoWhich is supported only on Google Pixels. So if I go that route, how can I be sure it won’t suffer from the same bugs re: emergency calls?
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago...check their git repo's issues? Take 30 seconds and ask in the channel? Due diligence and personal responsibility for what is likely your most important computing device, instead of contracting that out to firms who would stab their grandmother to improve their quarterly numbers.
- Tijdreiziger 4y agoIf Google, with their army of engineers, hasn’t been able to track this bug down, why would I expect a team of volunteers to have done so? They do their own customizations, but it’s still based on AOSP. To be clear, this is not meant to disparage the GrapheneOS devs, but there’s an obvious difference in available resources, so I don’t really expect them to fix hard-to-find bugs in AOSP.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoWell, then you don't understand the incentives at play, yet. You don't know what you're missing, stability-wise!
- aaaaaaaaata 4y agoPS Only supported on phones that have proper boot security.
- butterNaN 4y agoConsider installing /e/ os on your galaxy. https://e.foundation/e-os/ https://e.foundation/e-os/
- saiya-jin 4y agoI can say, after 6+ months with samsung s22 ultra i am very happy with it. Camera delivers more than any apple device can right now (since 10x zoom is surprisingly useful for me in normal light), battery is fine, screen is amazing and I think still best on the market today. People bash androids for privacy like all are from china, but Korea (and Japan and US) makes some fine devices too and as european I prefer them to US (and obviously China). I even have european exynos crap version, which is slower but some claim exynos models on previous models were much more stable/reliable after few months compared to snapdragons. Can't say, what I want works, there is absolute 0 broken/annoying things for me, no bloatware, no ads etc. That being said, when wife was looking for smaller phone few weeks back, I went through reviews and opinions and suggested iphone 13 mini. She always loved iphone photos of other folks and I think she will enjoy phone UI smoothness and long term reliability/security. It will be an interesting experiment.
- lawn 4y agoThe Fairphone 4 is great IMO. Repairability is super high, it's easily flashed to eg LineagOS and has been promised software updates for many years if you want to stay with Android.
- pvillano 4y agoyeah, but not if you're in the US > Currently, we only sell and ship Fairphone products to countries within the EEA and to Switzerland, the UK, Norway and Croatia.
- CrazyIvan 4y agoSamsung A52s 5g. There is a variant with 8GB ram / 256GB storage with dual sim support. Enough features, headphone jack and 2 days battery life easily. A53 is worse.