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“Due to a rare energy emergency that may affect the local energy grid, your temperature slider has been changed from 8:00 am — 8:00 pm because you enrolled in a

“Due to a rare energy emergency that may affect the local energy grid, your temperature slider has been changed from 8:00 am — 8:00 pm because you enrolled in a Community Energy Savings program.” Specifically, one that offered them incentives in exchange for some degree of remote control over the smart thermostats. Those customers, for example, get a $100 credit at sign-up, and $25 each year. It seems that customers were aware of that because of the participation benefits

Victerius 4y ago
I bet most of them will cancel their participation in the program as fast as possible. Yes, they were aware of the consequences, but most people tend to believe that that won't happen because we live in a reasonable world.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  > but most people tend to believe that that won't happen because we live in a reasonable world. A company is giving away money for you to sign up and the reasonable thing is to assume it will never happen?
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    How is this getting downvoted? (currently gray) The only reasonable expectation is that it will happen, just like the comment said.
    - InTheArena 4y ago
      Actually, it said that it would be safe, intermittent and short. A 12 hour block, that I cannot override in a emergency is none of those things. source - live here and signed up for the program.
      - throw827474737 4y ago
        Can you detail the emergency please? Do you guys realize that the alternative to things like this soon may be a blackout with much harsher consequences at some point? Soon we won't have those fixed prize contracts anymore anyway, and it is then again up to your full control to spend your full month salary for AC on a hot day in crisis times..
        InTheArena 4y ago
        Yes, which is why I am working on getting solar added to the house, and go as much off the grid as possible.
        dbsights 4y ago
        Come on, the choice isn't just between conservation and blackouts.. This is only an issue because we sacrificed the reliability of the power grid for 'green' technologies. Forget enforced conservation or blackouts, I choose a reliable power grid, obviously, and that means ditching worthless renewables and building out proven technology.
        locutous 4y ago
        > Can you detail the emergency please? People who are sensitive to heat may need to cool down and 78 deg may not be cool enough. My wife is particularly sensitive to heat, as in hospitalization is possible if she gets over heated for too long. She very easily triggers heat stroke symptoms. And some days in the summer it's "run the AC full blast" whatever the temperature is set at. Sometimes that's even when we are down to 73 thermostat temp. Usually not that low but it has happened. 78 is frequently enough, but not always, many factors are involved. I won't touch this tech with a 10 foot pole. We require full control of the environmental controls.
    - djbusby 4y ago
      It's likely grey cause folk hate to be reminded of the human condition to think: "it won't happen to me" & the follow-up "when it does I'm surprised and mad".
    - ed-209 4y ago
      I didn't downvote but there appears to be an unprecedented energy crisis on the horizon and I suspect this story is a taste of things to come. In that sense, being logically correct in assigning blame to the peasants might still be a bad look overall?
- aperson_hello 4y ago
  But the key point they're missing is that we live in a reasonable world because of these types of programs!
pessimizer 4y ago
It seems to me that there is absolutely no way for the customer to be able to price the risk in this deal, and that the companies offering the program have a million ways to evaluate the risk, and possibly a bunch of contracts with other companies that completely lay off the risk. Far too much imbalance of information between vendor and customer intrinsic to the situation to allow this to be a legal agreement. I'm a fan of letting people make their own decisions, but letting them make their own decisions when there's no way they could make one with a positive expected outcome is just a legalized swindle.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Does this critique also apply to insurance? Actually does seem like another valid framing to the consumer: this is insurance against an outrageous bill for you, it’s insurance against grid failure for us (and you)
- sovnade 4y ago
  You can opt back out at literally any time.
- throw827474737 4y ago
  Legalized swindle? Here take our money and just hope that what you trade it in for will never happen? If you don't want it to ever happen, just say no to this 100$, no? Seems pretty transparent.. Your thinking is especially confusing to me as I assume you are also a citizen of the land of the free, that usually favors self-sovereign and capitalism in all its flavors with all its consequences on much more apparent absurd levels? ;) But back to topic, can someone just set for me into relation how "bad" that was it all? It sounds like this was more a sweaty luxury annoyance and not life-threatening? And then this outcry seems to be absurd. Welcome to climate change and our general still accelerating resource wastage aa if there wouldn't be a future. In 20 years you will laugh about that, it'll only become much worse.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  > It seems to me that there is absolutely no way for the customer to be able to price the risk in this deal Here is $100. In exchange, if there is a shortage of energy, you will be a bit hotter or colder than you might normally want. You can quit the program at any time. What is so complicated there? This is no different than buying BBB rated debt or smaller company stocks. If this is too much for the average person, investment in nearly anything should also be banned.

Victerius 4y ago

I bet most of them will cancel their participation in the program as fast as possible. Yes, they were aware of the consequences, but most people tend to believe that that won't happen because we live in a reasonable world.

throwawaysleep 4y ago
> but most people tend to believe that that won't happen because we live in a reasonable world. A company is giving away money for you to sign up and the reasonable thing is to assume it will never happen?
- Semaphor 4y ago
  How is this getting downvoted? (currently gray) The only reasonable expectation is that it will happen, just like the comment said.
  - InTheArena 4y ago
    Actually, it said that it would be safe, intermittent and short. A 12 hour block, that I cannot override in a emergency is none of those things. source - live here and signed up for the program.
    - throw827474737 4y ago
      Can you detail the emergency please? Do you guys realize that the alternative to things like this soon may be a blackout with much harsher consequences at some point? Soon we won't have those fixed prize contracts anymore anyway, and it is then again up to your full control to spend your full month salary for AC on a hot day in crisis times..
      - InTheArena 4y ago
        Yes, which is why I am working on getting solar added to the house, and go as much off the grid as possible.
      - dbsights 4y ago
        Come on, the choice isn't just between conservation and blackouts.. This is only an issue because we sacrificed the reliability of the power grid for 'green' technologies. Forget enforced conservation or blackouts, I choose a reliable power grid, obviously, and that means ditching worthless renewables and building out proven technology.
      - locutous 4y ago
        > Can you detail the emergency please? People who are sensitive to heat may need to cool down and 78 deg may not be cool enough. My wife is particularly sensitive to heat, as in hospitalization is possible if she gets over heated for too long. She very easily triggers heat stroke symptoms. And some days in the summer it's "run the AC full blast" whatever the temperature is set at. Sometimes that's even when we are down to 73 thermostat temp. Usually not that low but it has happened. 78 is frequently enough, but not always, many factors are involved. I won't touch this tech with a 10 foot pole. We require full control of the environmental controls.
  - djbusby 4y ago
    It's likely grey cause folk hate to be reminded of the human condition to think: "it won't happen to me" & the follow-up "when it does I'm surprised and mad".
  - ed-209 4y ago
    I didn't downvote but there appears to be an unprecedented energy crisis on the horizon and I suspect this story is a taste of things to come. In that sense, being logically correct in assigning blame to the peasants might still be a bad look overall?
aperson_hello 4y ago
But the key point they're missing is that we live in a reasonable world because of these types of programs!

pessimizer 4y ago

It seems to me that there is absolutely no way for the customer to be able to price the risk in this deal, and that the companies offering the program have a million ways to evaluate the risk, and possibly a bunch of contracts with other companies that completely lay off the risk. Far too much imbalance of information between vendor and customer intrinsic to the situation to allow this to be a legal agreement. I'm a fan of letting people make their own decisions, but letting them make their own decisions when there's no way they could make one with a positive expected outcome is just a legalized swindle.

ethanbond 4y ago
Does this critique also apply to insurance? Actually does seem like another valid framing to the consumer: this is insurance against an outrageous bill for you, it’s insurance against grid failure for us (and you)
sovnade 4y ago
You can opt back out at literally any time.
throw827474737 4y ago
Legalized swindle? Here take our money and just hope that what you trade it in for will never happen? If you don't want it to ever happen, just say no to this 100$, no? Seems pretty transparent.. Your thinking is especially confusing to me as I assume you are also a citizen of the land of the free, that usually favors self-sovereign and capitalism in all its flavors with all its consequences on much more apparent absurd levels? ;) But back to topic, can someone just set for me into relation how "bad" that was it all? It sounds like this was more a sweaty luxury annoyance and not life-threatening? And then this outcry seems to be absurd. Welcome to climate change and our general still accelerating resource wastage aa if there wouldn't be a future. In 20 years you will laugh about that, it'll only become much worse.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
> It seems to me that there is absolutely no way for the customer to be able to price the risk in this deal Here is $100. In exchange, if there is a shortage of energy, you will be a bit hotter or colder than you might normally want. You can quit the program at any time. What is so complicated there? This is no different than buying BBB rated debt or smaller company stocks. If this is too much for the average person, investment in nearly anything should also be banned.