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>A refund does not make you a non paying customer. In the same way getting injured by a faulty product can't be resolved with "fully refunded, they're not our c

by prvit 4y ago

>A refund does not make you a non paying customer. In the same way getting injured by a faulty product can't be resolved with "fully refunded, they're not our customer anymore". A faulty product that simply doesn't work can totally be resolved with "fully refunded, they're not our customer anymore".

viraptor 4y ago
Technically true, but missing the context. What happens is regulated by applicable local law: if both sides are happy with that solution and it's legal to do so, the issue may be resolved with a refund. For example in Australia ACCC says that sure, you're entitled to a refund as one of the options when a product/service fails. But that doesn't stop you from being able to claim damages or losses even if you're fully refunded. https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/compensation-for-damages-loss https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees... Actually I'd love to see the result of involving ACCC in this situation if someone in Oz gets terminated. They can be very detailed in their analysis if they're interested.
- prvit 4y ago
  I don't know how things work in Australia, but I'd be really surprised if someone signing up to sell apps on the app store would be treated as a consumer. Also, paying for the right to develop on Apple platforms is hardly a service.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    ACCC rules apply to products and services. The first sentence in the paid apps agreement is: > You hereby appoint Apple and Apple Subsidiaries (collectively “Apple”) as: (i) Your agent for the marketing and delivery of the Licensed Applications to End-Users Apple is providing devs a service.
    - prvit 4y ago
      There are services which Apple provides to developers as a part of the agreement, but to be an Apple Developer involves much more than that. >ACCC rules apply to products and services. Over here in Europe consumer protection laws generally do not apply to contracts between businesses. i.e. A photographer buying a camera for their business use would not necessarily be covered.
pessimizer 4y ago
Right. That would make as much sense as letting someone walk on burglary charges because they brought all of the stolen goods back and arranged them as they were before.
- prvit 4y ago
  Not sure I follow, burglary usually refers to entering a building without permission for the purpose of committing another crime e.g. theft. Bringing stolen goods back and arranging them as they were before would often be a sufficient defense against a theft charge, as an intention to permanently deprive the owner of the item is often a necessary element of the crime. This would presumably also reduce your burglary charge to trespass. https://vistacriminallaw.com/borrowing-theft/ https://vistacriminallaw.com/borrowing-theft/ https://www.floridacriminaljustice.com/blog/2017/08/theft-is-more-than-borrowing-items-without-permission/ https://www.floridacriminaljustice.com/blog/2017/08/theft-is...

by prvit 4y ago

viraptor 4y ago

Technically true, but missing the context. What happens is regulated by applicable local law: if both sides are happy with that solution and it's legal to do so, the issue may be resolved with a refund. For example in Australia ACCC says that sure, you're entitled to a refund as one of the options when a product/service fails. But that doesn't stop you from being able to claim damages or losses even if you're fully refunded. https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/compensation-for-damages-loss https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees... Actually I'd love to see the result of involving ACCC in this situation if someone in Oz gets terminated. They can be very detailed in their analysis if they're interested.

prvit 4y ago
I don't know how things work in Australia, but I'd be really surprised if someone signing up to sell apps on the app store would be treated as a consumer. Also, paying for the right to develop on Apple platforms is hardly a service.
- viraptor 4y ago
  ACCC rules apply to products and services. The first sentence in the paid apps agreement is: > You hereby appoint Apple and Apple Subsidiaries (collectively “Apple”) as: (i) Your agent for the marketing and delivery of the Licensed Applications to End-Users Apple is providing devs a service.
  - prvit 4y ago
    There are services which Apple provides to developers as a part of the agreement, but to be an Apple Developer involves much more than that. >ACCC rules apply to products and services. Over here in Europe consumer protection laws generally do not apply to contracts between businesses. i.e. A photographer buying a camera for their business use would not necessarily be covered.

pessimizer 4y ago

Right. That would make as much sense as letting someone walk on burglary charges because they brought all of the stolen goods back and arranged them as they were before.

prvit 4y ago
Not sure I follow, burglary usually refers to entering a building without permission for the purpose of committing another crime e.g. theft. Bringing stolen goods back and arranging them as they were before would often be a sufficient defense against a theft charge, as an intention to permanently deprive the owner of the item is often a necessary element of the crime. This would presumably also reduce your burglary charge to trespass. https://vistacriminallaw.com/borrowing-theft/ https://vistacriminallaw.com/borrowing-theft/ https://www.floridacriminaljustice.com/blog/2017/08/theft-is-more-than-borrowing-items-without-permission/ https://www.floridacriminaljustice.com/blog/2017/08/theft-is...