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Yes. Animals are tools and can be regarded as property. I do support regulations in how animals should be raised and treated, but regarding them on the same lev

by choko 4y ago

Yes. Animals are tools and can be regarded as property. I do support regulations in how animals should be raised and treated, but regarding them on the same level as humans is fallacy. I've seen your evidence and it has failed to change my mind. Especially since a vegan diet isn't suitable or healthy for everyone. If it works for you, great. Follow your heart.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
In your view - what makes an animal property? Is it OK to make your property suffer and kill it? And if so, why? And where did I say animals should be regarded the same as humans? The point is animals can suffer and they avoid pain if they can - just like we do. They seek happiness and safety - just like we do. Yet we breed them in the billions and put them in horrible living conditions just so we can have burger. It has nothing to do with following your heart. It's following science that tells us feeding the world with animal meat is not sustainable. It's about not supporting an industry that creates immense suffering and environmental destruction. And a plant based diet is healthy [0][1] and we have the technology to create healthier and more sustainable protein sources than factory farming animals. [0] A community of over 17,000 physicians proving you otherwise: https://www.pcrm.org/about-us https://www.pcrm.org/about-us [1] Athletes thriving on a plant-based diet: https://gamechangersmovie.com/ https://gamechangersmovie.com/
- choko 4y ago
  I have first hand experience with someone in my immediate family who was unable to sustain a vegan diet. She became anemic and was ill 6 to 10 times a year. Iron supplements did help, but only enough to bring levels up to the lower bounds of normal. This went on for years. After reintroducing some amount of animal protein, her health and iron levels improved dramatically. If you want to change someone's mind you could be less condescending. Right now, you are acting like the arrogant vegan stereotype. Do better.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    Sorry, I didn’t mean to be condescending. Just sharing my sources. I merely replied to your statement that a plant based is not healthy and pointing to PCRM. How is that condescending? Of course there are edge cases, ie if someone has medical issues and can’t survive without meat and nothing else works then that’s a different matter. You might find this useful https://nutritionguide.pcrm.org/nutritionguide/view/Nutrition_Guide_for_Clinicians/1342090/all/Iron_Deficiency_Anemia https://nutritionguide.pcrm.org/nutritionguide/view/Nutritio... Which bits were condescending to you? So I can adjust my wording and not come across condescending. Could it be that you have a strong bias against folks who are vegan because some have a holier than though attitude? And you apply that bias towards me? Curious to know your answers to my other questions, why you regard other sentient beings as tools and property and what gives us the right to enslave and kill those beings if our survival doesn’t depend on it.

by choko 4y ago

uxcolumbo 4y ago

In your view - what makes an animal property? Is it OK to make your property suffer and kill it? And if so, why? And where did I say animals should be regarded the same as humans? The point is animals can suffer and they avoid pain if they can - just like we do. They seek happiness and safety - just like we do. Yet we breed them in the billions and put them in horrible living conditions just so we can have burger. It has nothing to do with following your heart. It's following science that tells us feeding the world with animal meat is not sustainable. It's about not supporting an industry that creates immense suffering and environmental destruction. And a plant based diet is healthy [0][1] and we have the technology to create healthier and more sustainable protein sources than factory farming animals. [0] A community of over 17,000 physicians proving you otherwise: https://www.pcrm.org/about-us https://www.pcrm.org/about-us [1] Athletes thriving on a plant-based diet: https://gamechangersmovie.com/ https://gamechangersmovie.com/

choko 4y ago
I have first hand experience with someone in my immediate family who was unable to sustain a vegan diet. She became anemic and was ill 6 to 10 times a year. Iron supplements did help, but only enough to bring levels up to the lower bounds of normal. This went on for years. After reintroducing some amount of animal protein, her health and iron levels improved dramatically. If you want to change someone's mind you could be less condescending. Right now, you are acting like the arrogant vegan stereotype. Do better.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Sorry, I didn’t mean to be condescending. Just sharing my sources. I merely replied to your statement that a plant based is not healthy and pointing to PCRM. How is that condescending? Of course there are edge cases, ie if someone has medical issues and can’t survive without meat and nothing else works then that’s a different matter. You might find this useful https://nutritionguide.pcrm.org/nutritionguide/view/Nutrition_Guide_for_Clinicians/1342090/all/Iron_Deficiency_Anemia https://nutritionguide.pcrm.org/nutritionguide/view/Nutritio... Which bits were condescending to you? So I can adjust my wording and not come across condescending. Could it be that you have a strong bias against folks who are vegan because some have a holier than though attitude? And you apply that bias towards me? Curious to know your answers to my other questions, why you regard other sentient beings as tools and property and what gives us the right to enslave and kill those beings if our survival doesn’t depend on it.