10 ms·

So they are lying when they say "targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and imm

• nailer 4y ago
  > "targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life" The post directly addressed this matter.
• cft 4y ago
  I am not a Kiwifarms user, but since it's now available at the new domain (and according to CF, KF is not cooperating) the threats should still be there. I cannot find them. Can you please link those threats? Otherwise this lends me to believe that the basis of Matthew Prince's sudden reversal on his "free speech" ideals was something else, not the KF content.
  • calahad 4y ago
    The kiwi response states emphatically that they were deleted
    • cft 4y ago
      Then if the site promptly deleted allegedly unlawful content, why was it deplatformed by CF?
      • bobzimuta 4y ago
        the twitter pressure campaign
        • deleted 4y ago
          [deleted]
        • cft 4y ago
          It could be the threats from their more important clients https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1565026728241614849 https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1565026728241614849
          • dalmo3 4y ago
            Interestingly, that thread gives no indication (other than the date it was written) whether the user is mad at CloudFlare for enacting censorship or for the lack of censorship.
      • danielmalmer 4y ago
        Google exists.
      • shadowgovt 4y ago
        For the same reason thieves go to prison after returning stolen goods.
        • josephcsible 4y ago
          Unlawful content gets posted to Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Reddit, etc. all the time. We don't deplatform all of them just because there was a window of time in which it was posted but not yet removed.
          • shadowgovt 4y ago
            Their value proposition outweighs the harm.
            • cft 4y ago
              Value of Facebook?
              • shadowgovt 4y ago
                The burden of proof is on the interlocutor to disprove the value of a Fortune 500 company, yes.
                • cft 4y ago
                  I guess at 460bn market cap it's a tad more valuable than the drug market https://www.worldometers.info/drugs/ https://www.worldometers.info/drugs/ "With estimates of $100 billion to $110 billion for heroin, $110 billion to $130 billion for cocaine, $75 billion for cannabis and $60 billion for synthetic drugs, the probable global figure for the total illicit drug industry would be approximately $360 billion"
                  • shadowgovt 4y ago
                    Correct. To square the circle, consider that while they're being fined heavily for their involvement in a massive legally-sanctioned opioid epidemic, the major drug companies aren't even being dissolved. At this scale, for corporations, total value to society is part of the calculus society does. And KF has no value to demonstrate to offset the harm.
    • sophacles 4y ago
      • yanderekko 4y ago
        What unambiguous claim has KF lied about in the past?
      • philippejara 4y ago
        This is coming from keffals herself: https://twitter.com/keffals/status/1566158393391423489 https://twitter.com/keffals/status/1566158393391423489
        • sophacles 4y ago
          Who is keffals and why do I care? Lots of people say lots of things, what does that have to do with the KFools being lying bullies?
          • philippejara 4y ago
            my friend she is the target of the threat we are discussing here...
• zppln 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, what caused targeted threats to escalate over the last 48 hours? I'm not familiar with the site, but from what I understand they've been around for over a decade doing basically the same thing, so what caused this escalation?
  • pjc50 4y ago
    Keffals posted that she was going to Belfast, which caused the escalation of targeted threats, this time reported through a different more effective police service. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32712196
  • criley2 4y ago
    Now that the community is being used to target US politicians, I'm surprised the government hasn't stepped in.
• gsich 4y ago
  They lied before, so yes it's possible.
  • hackerlight 4y ago
    How did they lie before?
• robobro 4y ago
  I've had people post phony bomb threats on my services in the past in an attempt to make my life more difficult. Do you think that I shouldn't be allowed to host services because I'm targeted by bad actors? Maybe we should shut down Twitter, Facebook, Gmail, Yahoo Mail et al. because they allow pseudonymous entities to say whatever they want until moderation addresses problematic posting (as Kiwifarms did with the bomb threat -- they deleted the post and banned the account of the user who made it). Not trying to defend Kiwifarms here but looking at this an abstracted issue. The real reason why KF was kicked off of Cloudflare is because a lot of people told Cloudflare to stop hosting it, not simply because a bad actor made a malicious post.
  • hackerlight 4y ago
    > I've had people post phony bomb threats on my services in the past in an attempt to make my life more difficult. Do you think that I shouldn't be allowed to host services because I'm targeted by bad actors? > Maybe we should shut down Twitter, Facebook, Gmail, Yahoo Mail et al. because they allow pseudonymous entities to say whatever they want until moderation addresses problematic posting (as Kiwifarms did with the bomb threat -- they deleted the post and banned the account of the user who made it). This is all disanalogous. With Kiwifarms, the incitement to violence was the straw that broke the camel's back. It presumably wasn't just the incitement per se. The incitement didn't happen in a vacuum. Gmail and Yahoo don't have social mechanics that encourage this behavior. Twitter and Facebook actively ban many of the things that Kiwifarms doesn't ban, and presumably your forum does too. > Not trying to defend Kiwifarms here but looking at this an abstracted issue. Don't look at it as an asbtracted issue. Study the details, otherwise you will confuse yourself by trying to draw analogies between a hate forum with targeted harassment on the one hand, and an email provider on the other, which share nothing in common aside from them both being websites.
    • salawat 4y ago
      Fine then. Here we go. I now suggest a medium by which others may pseudonymously incite each other to violence by creating accounts on various services, and hosting credentials in a regular manner such that one can compose a system using arbitrary providers to host the same type of speech. By your logic, "Welp, there goes the internet because there are awful people." Welcome to reality. People are horrible. They have been horrible, this is not new. They will not stop being horrible. We maintain these systems in spite of them that the not horrible people may be able to achieve something they otherwise couldn't before. The problem, in my estimation, is people who are uncomfortable with other people organizing which in and of itself is the collective superpower of humanity. They would see that capability locked away, only to be approved by someone, but never taking into account that someday that ability to squelch organization may be applied to them. I'm sorry, but no. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. The cost of Liberty is vigilance eternal. You may cower in fear at the prospect. Not everyone does. If someone grabs your hair in a fight, you don't chop it off so they can't do it anymore. You adapt.
• fsociety999 4y ago
  Is there any evidence that it is true other than the word of one person? The Cloudflare post didn’t provide any examples, and it seemed to be news to the Kiwi Farms people as well. Just a few days ago Cloudflare took a pretty strong stance that they would not take action so for them to flip-flop like this in such a short period of time they must either have received: - Strong proof that there has been an escalation, and there is an immediate threat to human life. - Pressure from investors who are worried about the stock price and company’s image - Their own set of threats against Cloudflare employees for refusing to take action - Word that a large company who uses their platform was threatening to remove all traffic ($$) from Cloudflare unless they took immediate action Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof so if they can’t provide the proof, it seems far more likely they caved to social/investor pressure. I hope you see the irony of taking a big tech CEO at their word and criticizing someone else for lacking an imagination when they suggest an alternative.
  • res0nat0r 4y ago
    Yes https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1565797220531814406 https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/15657972205318144...
  • hackerlight 4y ago
    There was 2 specific threats. One bomb threat posted to KF proper, and one threat posted to 4chan from outside her apartment that referenced the KF forum on a piece of paper that was photographed. > Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof Nice sloganeering, but it's hardly an extraordinary claim. I can see the 2,000 page thread of harassment and hate directed at a single person for myself.
    • fsociety999 4y ago
      The Kiwi Farms response claims that post was deleted within minutes, and the fact that someone posted on 4chan referencing a post on another site is a ridiculous reason to ban the other site. The original justification from Cloudflare for de-platforming them which you quoted in your post was that “targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours”. That is the claim that requires evidence. Citing a post that was removed prior to that time period is not proof that threats have escalated over the last 48 hours. What evidence is there of this claim? Do you have a link you can share to the thread of harassment and hate?
• JohnHaugeland 4y ago
  We've been on the internet for more than six weeks, rather Don't be an apologist for these guys
• yanderekko 4y ago
  >So they are lying when they say "targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life"? In a word, yes. In several words, if the CEO wants to go on about due process, then he should provide it. Establish that there's an "unprecedented threat", either publicly or to Moon in private correspondence. Also I really dislike that perception of KF required to be so negative that people are severely discounting the probability that this is a false flag attack, especially given the obvious incentives of activists to do this sort of stuff. If KF started producing material indicating that TRAs were plotting to murder Joshua Moon, would anyone take it seriously?
  • shadowgovt 4y ago
    > discounting the probability that this is a false flag attack There's a great kid's story (name escapes me now) about a boy who won't stop pulling the pig-tails of the girl in front of him. Every time he does, she shrieks, and the teacher reprimands him. Finally, he gets the last reprimand: if it happens again, he'll be suspended. He returns to his desk, resolved to be better, having decided he doesn't want to be suspended. With no known reason, the girl shrieks. He's sent home. Moral of the story: the line is actually further away from the edge than tricksters think it is.