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Hydrogen vehicles are interesting (especially for things like public transport where battery capacity can be an issue - some cities have started looking at hydr

Hydrogen vehicles are interesting (especially for things like public transport where battery capacity can be an issue - some cities have started looking at hydrogen buses for longer routes for example) but it is potentially pretty good as a potential grid level storage technology as well, even if cars largely become electric.

iconosynclast 4y ago
The thing is that the vehicles really aren't interesting at all unless you already have an energy surplus that makes the fuel cheap. unless you have that all you have is a vehicle that burns an expensive and or non renewable fuel (most hydrogen right now doesn't come from electrolysis) while getting just ok range and with the included headache of carting around a 700bar storage system and dubious ecological benefits over bad old hydrocarbons
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  We do have an energy surplus, we're just currently wasting a ridiculous amount of it for no particularly good reason. Take the gas burned in homes for heating, burn it in power plants to generate electricity, power much more efficient heat pumps. We're already saving money and energy. Some countries figured this out in the 1970s. Simultaneously, build out cheap renewables, to burn less gas for electricity production. Same story for vehicles, take that oil/gasoline, burn it in power plants, use it to charge much more efficient EVs. Hydrogen then can replace fossil fuels in other areas, e.g. fertilizers. (Again, put that now unused gas into electricity plants). And so on, a virtuous cycle that takes you all the way to net zero and beyond.
- natmaka 4y ago
  As intermittent 'renewables' gain traction, 'green hydrogen' will more and more be available: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_hydrogen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_hydrogen
Tijdreiziger 4y ago
In my area there are a lot of electric city buses in use. AFAIK battery capacity isn't really an issue - they just charge them at the depot and then they're good for a day of use. Regional buses still tend to be natural gas-powered, though.
cjrp 4y ago
JCB is working on hydrogen-powered heavy/plant machinery to replace the existing diesel models. Batteries don’t last long enough for a day of work.

iconosynclast 4y ago

The thing is that the vehicles really aren't interesting at all unless you already have an energy surplus that makes the fuel cheap. unless you have that all you have is a vehicle that burns an expensive and or non renewable fuel (most hydrogen right now doesn't come from electrolysis) while getting just ok range and with the included headache of carting around a 700bar storage system and dubious ecological benefits over bad old hydrocarbons

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
We do have an energy surplus, we're just currently wasting a ridiculous amount of it for no particularly good reason. Take the gas burned in homes for heating, burn it in power plants to generate electricity, power much more efficient heat pumps. We're already saving money and energy. Some countries figured this out in the 1970s. Simultaneously, build out cheap renewables, to burn less gas for electricity production. Same story for vehicles, take that oil/gasoline, burn it in power plants, use it to charge much more efficient EVs. Hydrogen then can replace fossil fuels in other areas, e.g. fertilizers. (Again, put that now unused gas into electricity plants). And so on, a virtuous cycle that takes you all the way to net zero and beyond.
natmaka 4y ago
As intermittent 'renewables' gain traction, 'green hydrogen' will more and more be available: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_hydrogen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_hydrogen

Tijdreiziger 4y ago

In my area there are a lot of electric city buses in use. AFAIK battery capacity isn't really an issue - they just charge them at the depot and then they're good for a day of use. Regional buses still tend to be natural gas-powered, though.

cjrp 4y ago

JCB is working on hydrogen-powered heavy/plant machinery to replace the existing diesel models. Batteries don’t last long enough for a day of work.