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They look very clearly different to me, but the difference isn't big. I made a gif of the starry night images: https://p.mort.coffee/jR5.gif https://p.mort.coff

by mort96 4y ago

They look very clearly different to me, but the difference isn't big. I made a gif of the starry night images: https://p.mort.coffee/jR5.gif https://p.mort.coffee/jR5.gif To me, one of the images clearly has a yellow color where the other image has a green-ish color.

OJFord 4y ago
It took me a while to see anything other than resizing - but yes, the larger one is ever so slightly greener to me too (I am colour blind, couldn't see a difference side by side). And I watched the gif prior to reading your description of the difference - I experience this strange phenomenon sometimes whereby the colour of something (or the presence of different colours) morphs in front of my eyes, after someone describes it or claims that it's there. (Red and green bars on a chart for example might all be the same, then someone says 'blah blah in the second red bar' and all of a sudden I can distinguish them, see the red or green that wasn't there before. Or a bridge in London that suddenly looked green when I was told it was called Green Bridge.) I wish it was easier to learn more about it, because I find that kind of fascinating (and mildly 'scary'!) - must surely mean it's not just about the eyes, but my brain is smoothing over some rough edges as though small red/green differences are assumed to be wrong, but if someone confirms them then the parameters are altered.
- tkgally 4y ago
  I’m color-blind, too. I can see only the resizing difference in the gif; the colors look identical to me. I haven’t ever experienced the reperception-by-suggestion phenomenon that you describe. But I do think that, when I was young, I gradually became a bit better at distinguishing and remembering colors than I had been as a child, perhaps because having been told that I was color-blind made me pay more attention to colors. “Purple” was a mystery to me when I was ten; by the age of twenty, I could usually distinguish it from blue.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    It's extremely subtle to me - the bottom horizontal stream gets very very slightly greener when it gets bigger. I noticed it first because the starry swirl thing above it, bottom right of the big black thing, seemed to change shape as though the actual brush strokes were different, bit more of a classic star shape emerges. But it's extremely slight, more like the 'what a colourblind person would see' filtering is imperfect than that I can actually see the original.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    I am not color-blind, but there are shades of colors that, depending either on light source, what other colors are around, or just how I'm thinking about what I'm looking at, will switch back and forth. I can pick out purple from violet, but I have had some clothing that will either appear purple or grey depending on how I am thinking about it (really). Similarly, I have a hoodie that is a timber green that at times appears brown, and a pair of corduroys that are brown that at times appear vaguely purple. I am nearly certain these shifting hue effects of the dyes were intended by the manufacturers.
- mort96 4y ago
  Yeah, sorry about the resizing and shifting. The two images in the article are different sizes (and aspect ratios!), and I couldn't find a good way to fix it up in gimp without either making everything blurry (cubic interpolation) or cutting out rows and columns (nearest neighbor interpolation). Your description of how you see colors morphing once they're described is interesting! The brain definitely does a whole lot of complex visual processing which we don't notice, such as filtering out the big hole in your retina which nerves go through, and retroactively replacing the memory of your eyes moving with what you see after they've moved. And your peripheral vision is almost entirely grayscale, yet the brain fills in the colors it expects to be there so it doesn't feel grayscale. It doesn't surprise me that when color information is missing due to color blindness, it will fill in the missing color information from other sources.
lupire 4y ago
Parent was talking about the "protanopia (top right) and deuteranopia (bottom left)" cell division pictures, not the Van Gogh on top.
- mort96 4y ago
  Oh, sorry! I should've read more carefully. Those do appear to be literally identical to my eyes as well. I made a similar gif of those: https://p.mort.coffee/UIt.gif https://p.mort.coffee/UIt.gif -- I can only see the noise shifting around a little bit. And GIMP agrees; the RGB histogram looks incredibly similar between the two images (https://p.mort.coffee/tn8.png https://p.mort.coffee/tn8.png vs https://p.mort.coffee/t3z.png https://p.mort.coffee/t3z.png).
  - xnorswap 4y ago
    Given one of them is labelled as being a simulation of blue/yellow colourblindness while the blue/yellow in the original image look very distinct, I suspect there's just been an error in producing the composite there.
dan_mctree 4y ago
They're talking about the image with the 4 versions of the call-divisions. They top right and bottom left there look identical to me too

by mort96 4y ago

OJFord 4y ago

It took me a while to see anything other than resizing - but yes, the larger one is ever so slightly greener to me too (I am colour blind, couldn't see a difference side by side). And I watched the gif prior to reading your description of the difference - I experience this strange phenomenon sometimes whereby the colour of something (or the presence of different colours) morphs in front of my eyes, after someone describes it or claims that it's there. (Red and green bars on a chart for example might all be the same, then someone says 'blah blah in the second red bar' and all of a sudden I can distinguish them, see the red or green that wasn't there before. Or a bridge in London that suddenly looked green when I was told it was called Green Bridge.) I wish it was easier to learn more about it, because I find that kind of fascinating (and mildly 'scary'!) - must surely mean it's not just about the eyes, but my brain is smoothing over some rough edges as though small red/green differences are assumed to be wrong, but if someone confirms them then the parameters are altered.

tkgally 4y ago
I’m color-blind, too. I can see only the resizing difference in the gif; the colors look identical to me. I haven’t ever experienced the reperception-by-suggestion phenomenon that you describe. But I do think that, when I was young, I gradually became a bit better at distinguishing and remembering colors than I had been as a child, perhaps because having been told that I was color-blind made me pay more attention to colors. “Purple” was a mystery to me when I was ten; by the age of twenty, I could usually distinguish it from blue.
- OJFord 4y ago
  It's extremely subtle to me - the bottom horizontal stream gets very very slightly greener when it gets bigger. I noticed it first because the starry swirl thing above it, bottom right of the big black thing, seemed to change shape as though the actual brush strokes were different, bit more of a classic star shape emerges. But it's extremely slight, more like the 'what a colourblind person would see' filtering is imperfect than that I can actually see the original.
- Maursault 4y ago
  I am not color-blind, but there are shades of colors that, depending either on light source, what other colors are around, or just how I'm thinking about what I'm looking at, will switch back and forth. I can pick out purple from violet, but I have had some clothing that will either appear purple or grey depending on how I am thinking about it (really). Similarly, I have a hoodie that is a timber green that at times appears brown, and a pair of corduroys that are brown that at times appear vaguely purple. I am nearly certain these shifting hue effects of the dyes were intended by the manufacturers.
mort96 4y ago
Yeah, sorry about the resizing and shifting. The two images in the article are different sizes (and aspect ratios!), and I couldn't find a good way to fix it up in gimp without either making everything blurry (cubic interpolation) or cutting out rows and columns (nearest neighbor interpolation). Your description of how you see colors morphing once they're described is interesting! The brain definitely does a whole lot of complex visual processing which we don't notice, such as filtering out the big hole in your retina which nerves go through, and retroactively replacing the memory of your eyes moving with what you see after they've moved. And your peripheral vision is almost entirely grayscale, yet the brain fills in the colors it expects to be there so it doesn't feel grayscale. It doesn't surprise me that when color information is missing due to color blindness, it will fill in the missing color information from other sources.

lupire 4y ago

Parent was talking about the "protanopia (top right) and deuteranopia (bottom left)" cell division pictures, not the Van Gogh on top.

mort96 4y ago
Oh, sorry! I should've read more carefully. Those do appear to be literally identical to my eyes as well. I made a similar gif of those: https://p.mort.coffee/UIt.gif https://p.mort.coffee/UIt.gif -- I can only see the noise shifting around a little bit. And GIMP agrees; the RGB histogram looks incredibly similar between the two images (https://p.mort.coffee/tn8.png https://p.mort.coffee/tn8.png vs https://p.mort.coffee/t3z.png https://p.mort.coffee/t3z.png).
- xnorswap 4y ago
  Given one of them is labelled as being a simulation of blue/yellow colourblindness while the blue/yellow in the original image look very distinct, I suspect there's just been an error in producing the composite there.

dan_mctree 4y ago

They're talking about the image with the 4 versions of the call-divisions. They top right and bottom left there look identical to me too