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Making accusations against someone and trying to get them deplatformed is not the same as threatening someone with violence. I know very few details but the mor

by dools 4y ago

Making accusations against someone and trying to get them deplatformed is not the same as threatening someone with violence. I know very few details but the moral equivalence you’re drawing in this comment is false.

Smithalicious 4y ago
Is it? Attacking someone's livelihood is a very real and impactful form of aggression. Compared threats of violence there's more cases where it's warranted, yes, but I think I would personally rather be on the receiving end of threats of violence than of someone attempting to make me lose my job and become much harder to employ. Of course actual violence is a different case altogether.
- zamalek 4y ago
  If that's your stance then that's fine. However, the correct approach would have been for Destiny to take legal action, instead of vigilantism. In addition, the prior comments talk about things that may causally limit freedom of speech. Losing your job does not mean losing your voice. When it comes to how FoS is constitutionally defined (across several countries), it is worth learning about "fighting words." Nearly every justice system agrees that any goes, except words that may (not merely will) cause imminent harm. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
  - Banana699 4y ago
    >the correct approach would have been for Destiny to take legal action, instead of vigilantism. So the correct response to percieved harrassment is indeed taking legal action, and not, say, mobilizing mobs to retaliate back ? Mmm, I wonder who needs to hear that.
    - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
      It's quite frightening how people cannot piece together the logic like this when it comes to situations involving transgenderism. You're obviously correct here, and I'm still trying to figure out how the above poster didn't realize what they were saying as they were saying it.
      - zamalek 4y ago
        What's more frightening is how many people can't piece together that every situation is not a dichotomy.
- galactus 4y ago
  As far as I understand, the people on kiwifarms _also_ try to get their targets fired by enailing their employees and claiming their targets are pedophiles or something like that.
  - Banana699 4y ago
    - RavingGoat 4y ago
      Bullshit. Half the stuff they have is fake or comes from hacked accounts. Get real.
      - Banana699 4y ago
      - Banana699 4y ago
clove 4y ago
If I'm not mistaken, the threat of violence came from someone USING the KF platform, not KF itself. If you want to make equivalences, deplatforming Destiny means removing him FROM a platform, and thus the person making threats should have been banned from KF to result an an equivalence. Yet the action taken was to actually remove the entire platform. Am I wrong here?
- dools 4y ago
  I was responding to this comment: “There seems to be a double standard with who can partake in intimidation campaigns.”
- ummonk 4y ago
  I'm unfamiliar with KF but if a platform can't or won't do a good enough job of moderating its content and users, then transitively the platform itself needs to be blocked.
  - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
    ...and who makes this decision? What's the measurement of doing a "good enough job?"
grapeskin 4y ago
Publicly calling someone a rapist can very well get someone injured or killed. Unless you’re a victim whose pleas are being completely ignored by the legal system, it’s not justifiable and not something that should be taken as anything but a threat to someone’s life. I have no clue who these people are or what the situation is, but I’ve seen more than enough angry mobs appear out of nowhere after an accusation of a crime.
- dools 4y ago
  “I have no clue who these people are or what the situation is, but I’ve seen more than enough angry mobs appear out of nowhere after an accusation of a crime.” What are some specific examples of this phenomenon you’re referring to?
  - fennecfoxy 4y ago
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-44856910 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-44856910 "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Humans are inherently tribal. If enough of us get together in a group, we are capable of terrible things - and the justification of them.
    - dools 4y ago
      Violent mobs organised through private channels by men seems to be more similar to what KiwiFarms are doing than what they are reacting to. This seems like a fundamentally different scenario than the OP I was responding to, glad I asked for specifics ;)
sam36 4y ago
This is the post the got the site shut down: https://i.imgur.com/S1z3Po2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/S1z3Po2.jpg And btw, kiwifarms had to get their own ip block because no one would host them any more that was like 5+ years ago or something. So cloudflare never really provided any service to the site as their IPs were public knowledge and could be ddos'd (hence why it is always going down)
- HereIGoAgain 4y ago
  A post deleted as soon as a mod saw it (~30 minutes) with an account ban, by an account with virtually no posting history before this drama started.... hmmm
  - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
    I also have no idea why this website is responsible for a random post by a user, when the post is apparently against the stated rules of the forum? Are there not death threats posted on Twitter and Facebook all the time?
    - throwaway742 4y ago
      Because it is just a pretext and not an actual reason.
Banana699 4y ago

by dools 4y ago

Smithalicious 4y ago

Is it? Attacking someone's livelihood is a very real and impactful form of aggression. Compared threats of violence there's more cases where it's warranted, yes, but I think I would personally rather be on the receiving end of threats of violence than of someone attempting to make me lose my job and become much harder to employ. Of course actual violence is a different case altogether.

zamalek 4y ago
If that's your stance then that's fine. However, the correct approach would have been for Destiny to take legal action, instead of vigilantism. In addition, the prior comments talk about things that may causally limit freedom of speech. Losing your job does not mean losing your voice. When it comes to how FoS is constitutionally defined (across several countries), it is worth learning about "fighting words." Nearly every justice system agrees that any goes, except words that may (not merely will) cause imminent harm. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
- Banana699 4y ago
  >the correct approach would have been for Destiny to take legal action, instead of vigilantism. So the correct response to percieved harrassment is indeed taking legal action, and not, say, mobilizing mobs to retaliate back ? Mmm, I wonder who needs to hear that.
  - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
    It's quite frightening how people cannot piece together the logic like this when it comes to situations involving transgenderism. You're obviously correct here, and I'm still trying to figure out how the above poster didn't realize what they were saying as they were saying it.
    - zamalek 4y ago
      What's more frightening is how many people can't piece together that every situation is not a dichotomy.
galactus 4y ago
As far as I understand, the people on kiwifarms _also_ try to get their targets fired by enailing their employees and claiming their targets are pedophiles or something like that.
- Banana699 4y ago
  - RavingGoat 4y ago
    Bullshit. Half the stuff they have is fake or comes from hacked accounts. Get real.
    - Banana699 4y ago
    - Banana699 4y ago

clove 4y ago

If I'm not mistaken, the threat of violence came from someone USING the KF platform, not KF itself. If you want to make equivalences, deplatforming Destiny means removing him FROM a platform, and thus the person making threats should have been banned from KF to result an an equivalence. Yet the action taken was to actually remove the entire platform. Am I wrong here?

dools 4y ago
I was responding to this comment: “There seems to be a double standard with who can partake in intimidation campaigns.”
ummonk 4y ago
I'm unfamiliar with KF but if a platform can't or won't do a good enough job of moderating its content and users, then transitively the platform itself needs to be blocked.
- TobyTheDog123 4y ago
  ...and who makes this decision? What's the measurement of doing a "good enough job?"

grapeskin 4y ago

Publicly calling someone a rapist can very well get someone injured or killed. Unless you’re a victim whose pleas are being completely ignored by the legal system, it’s not justifiable and not something that should be taken as anything but a threat to someone’s life. I have no clue who these people are or what the situation is, but I’ve seen more than enough angry mobs appear out of nowhere after an accusation of a crime.

dools 4y ago
“I have no clue who these people are or what the situation is, but I’ve seen more than enough angry mobs appear out of nowhere after an accusation of a crime.” What are some specific examples of this phenomenon you’re referring to?
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-44856910 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-44856910 "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Humans are inherently tribal. If enough of us get together in a group, we are capable of terrible things - and the justification of them.
  - dools 4y ago
    Violent mobs organised through private channels by men seems to be more similar to what KiwiFarms are doing than what they are reacting to. This seems like a fundamentally different scenario than the OP I was responding to, glad I asked for specifics ;)

sam36 4y ago

This is the post the got the site shut down: https://i.imgur.com/S1z3Po2.jpg https://i.imgur.com/S1z3Po2.jpg And btw, kiwifarms had to get their own ip block because no one would host them any more that was like 5+ years ago or something. So cloudflare never really provided any service to the site as their IPs were public knowledge and could be ddos'd (hence why it is always going down)

HereIGoAgain 4y ago
A post deleted as soon as a mod saw it (~30 minutes) with an account ban, by an account with virtually no posting history before this drama started.... hmmm
- TobyTheDog123 4y ago
  I also have no idea why this website is responsible for a random post by a user, when the post is apparently against the stated rules of the forum? Are there not death threats posted on Twitter and Facebook all the time?
  - throwaway742 4y ago
    Because it is just a pretext and not an actual reason.

Banana699 4y ago