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Political neutrality is important for the tech industry. I appreciate Cloudflare trying its best to be neutral. When harm is done, the fault lies at the feet of

Political neutrality is important for the tech industry. I appreciate Cloudflare trying its best to be neutral. When harm is done, the fault lies at the feet of the perpetrator. Blaming their utility company, hosting provider, DNS registrar, grocer, butcher, barber, etc. is lunacy.

8note 4y ago
In the US at least, the getaway driver is to blame even if all they did was drive a car and receive payment for their driving
- acover 4y ago
  Even if they take an unsuspecting taxi?
- yardstick 4y ago
  Sure, but what about the company that they rented the car from? Or the company they bought car insurance from? In the eyes of the law, the intent of the person is often (not always) extremely relevant.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > Sure, but what about the company that they rented the car from? Or the company they bought car insurance from? I expect if they said "I want to rent a car to use as a getaway vehicle for a bank robbery" whilst standing next to a TV showing a picture of them committing a bank robbery, yes, the rental company would have some culpability.
    - yardstick 4y ago
      Did cloudfares customer tell them they wanted their services for DDOS?
      - mike_d 4y ago
        By the nature of how Cloudflare works, you have to provide them with your domain name and the content of your website. See if you could come up with a simple regular expression to deny services to these well known DDoS providers that are actively using Cloudflare: CryptoStresser.com Instant-Stresser.com FreeStresser.so StresserAI.com Booter.sx Flystress.net Bootyou.net
        teddyh 4y ago
        Say you go to a bank to get a loan, and you give the bank your details, including your address. The address you give is in a notorious crime-infested neighborhood. Does the bank have the moral obligation to deny you a loan, in order not to support criminal activity? I mean, they most likely will. However, most people instead like to attribute this behavior to banks being racist. Are you saying that this should instead be mandatory for the banks to do?
        ryan_lane 4y ago
        If you were getting that loan to buy a house to use as a base of operations for harassing people in the neighborhood, the bank would rightfully deny your application. You're strangely trying to tie this to someone simply living in a high-crime neighborhood. It's racist to deny a qualified person because the neighborhood is "high-crime" because often neighborhoods are high-crime because they're also over policed (which increases crime stats). In your analogy, the person isn't a known criminal, and isn't more likely to commit crime simply by living in an area that has a higher crime rate.
        teddyh 4y ago
        I’m using banks denying a loan to a high-crime neighborhood address as an analogy to explain why it’s also bad to deny hosting or service based on the domain name alone. It’s basically the Scunthorpe problem.
        4y ago

8note 4y ago

In the US at least, the getaway driver is to blame even if all they did was drive a car and receive payment for their driving

acover 4y ago
Even if they take an unsuspecting taxi?
yardstick 4y ago
Sure, but what about the company that they rented the car from? Or the company they bought car insurance from? In the eyes of the law, the intent of the person is often (not always) extremely relevant.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > Sure, but what about the company that they rented the car from? Or the company they bought car insurance from? I expect if they said "I want to rent a car to use as a getaway vehicle for a bank robbery" whilst standing next to a TV showing a picture of them committing a bank robbery, yes, the rental company would have some culpability.
  - yardstick 4y ago
    Did cloudfares customer tell them they wanted their services for DDOS?
    - mike_d 4y ago
      By the nature of how Cloudflare works, you have to provide them with your domain name and the content of your website. See if you could come up with a simple regular expression to deny services to these well known DDoS providers that are actively using Cloudflare: CryptoStresser.com Instant-Stresser.com FreeStresser.so StresserAI.com Booter.sx Flystress.net Bootyou.net
      - teddyh 4y ago
        Say you go to a bank to get a loan, and you give the bank your details, including your address. The address you give is in a notorious crime-infested neighborhood. Does the bank have the moral obligation to deny you a loan, in order not to support criminal activity? I mean, they most likely will. However, most people instead like to attribute this behavior to banks being racist. Are you saying that this should instead be mandatory for the banks to do?
        ryan_lane 4y ago
        If you were getting that loan to buy a house to use as a base of operations for harassing people in the neighborhood, the bank would rightfully deny your application. You're strangely trying to tie this to someone simply living in a high-crime neighborhood. It's racist to deny a qualified person because the neighborhood is "high-crime" because often neighborhoods are high-crime because they're also over policed (which increases crime stats). In your analogy, the person isn't a known criminal, and isn't more likely to commit crime simply by living in an area that has a higher crime rate.
        teddyh 4y ago
        I’m using banks denying a loan to a high-crime neighborhood address as an analogy to explain why it’s also bad to deny hosting or service based on the domain name alone. It’s basically the Scunthorpe problem.
        4y ago