8 ms·

This article seems to have been posted to make a false equivalence with the current Kiwifarms situation. There’s a pretty clear difference in urgency between ta

by oivey 4y ago

This article seems to have been posted to make a false equivalence with the current Kiwifarms situation. There’s a pretty clear difference in urgency between taking down DDOSers and deplatforming a forum that is a gathering point for a mob engaging in mass harassment, stalking, and SWATing. One is a nonviolent crime. The other is a crime targeting an individual that had already escalated to the point of a high risk of violence, with no sign of slowing down.

hn2017 4y ago
Precisely, once human lives are in extreme danger, it's a different situation
sourthyme 4y ago
DDOSs can have more impact than you think. Such as taking down hospitals and the war in Ukraine. Not really sure which one can be worse though... https://www.radware.com/security/ddos-experts-insider/ert-case-studies/boston-childrens-hospital-ddos-mitigation-case-study/ https://www.radware.com/security/ddos-experts-insider/ert-ca...
ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
DDOSing is illegal, any illegal content on KF is quickly removed.
- dapids 4y ago
mccorrinall 4y ago
Cloudflare still protects all those forums which harm people. Kiwifarms is the only one which was sensationized by the twitter crowd. Look at crime.to. They still send bomb threats [1], exchange stolen credit card data [2], harass people to the point where they lose their houses [3] (SWATing, breaking in into their house and much more included), and probably more on a daily basis. Still protected by cloudflare. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. [1] https://archive.ph/mOBGB https://archive.ph/mOBGB [2] just browse the forum [3] https://www.merkur.de/bayern/nuernberg/drachenlord-youtube-winkler-obdachlos-hater-leid-rainer-tiktok-onlyfans-emskirchen-91760296.html https://www.merkur.de/bayern/nuernberg/drachenlord-youtube-w...
- paganel 4y ago
  There's something very wrong with the game community. I've learned enough during stupid internet fights I have had on reddit to never continue a conversation with an avid gamer, no matter the subject. Stories like this one you linked to on merkur.de (read via Google Translate, but I think they got it right) confirm to me that that was the correct call.
  - firtoz 4y ago
    Why game community? It's more like all of the world enjoy games, including these sociopaths. You are chasing a red herring.
    - staticassertion 4y ago
      I think you have to be really in denial if you think that, on average, gamers are not a more toxic community than others. I think it's not that video games make people bad or something like that. But you probably have some demographics - like young men, for example - who have a lot going on in their lives and aren't always well equipped to handle it. The internet desensitizes everyone and I think that that can be a really bad mix with some people who spend time online and might have a hard time in their actual lives. Online harassment would presumably be cathartic for some of those people. People lash out for a reason and this is just lashing out at scale.
      - toxicFork 4y ago
        This can be generalized to any passionate interest community. Like body builders. Young men will be toxic. You just see gamers more because they spend more time on the internet by default.
        staticassertion 4y ago
        Being on the internet more is a key factor when talking about toxicity on the internet.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
blfr 4y ago
> a forum that is a gathering point for a mob engaging in mass harassment, stalking, and SWATing I keep hearing this allegation but it seems to be supported only by a poorly sourced twitter thread[1] and some articles that dance around the issue. How do we know this, especially the swatting? And why isn't law enforcement stepping in? The operator is an American afaict. It's not like he's some bond villain living in a cave on the other side of the world. [1] https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1565797220531814406 https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/15657972205318144...
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > And why isn't law enforcement stepping in? Because 1) they have limited resources and must prioritise and 2) America law enforcement seems to have a distinct lean towards the transphobic / homophobic / white supremacist / right-wing, etc. Just because something is not being actively policed does not mean it's not an actual crime (cf motorists running red lights for an easy example.)
  - blfr 4y ago
    Traffic violations are actually policed pretty closely because it's a source of revenue. High tech is employed to identify drivers, and even some shady tricks like shortening the yellow light. So it's not a good example. Regardless, it's a public forum(?), there should be tons of evidence if they routinely instigate swattings.
    - simfree 4y ago
      Traffic enforcement varies widely. Larger jurisdictions here in the Pacific Northwest seem to not enforce anything outside of parking rules in paid areas. Meanwhile some neighboring suburban jurisdictions come down harshly on passerbys, even when the stop was unjustified and no crime occured.
    - zimpenfish 4y ago
      > Traffic violations are actually policed pretty closely I can stand on the main road where I live in London and see 100+ violations an hour with no enforcement. > So it's not a good example. Perfect example if you're in London, though.

by oivey 4y ago

hn2017 4y ago

Precisely, once human lives are in extreme danger, it's a different situation

sourthyme 4y ago

DDOSs can have more impact than you think. Such as taking down hospitals and the war in Ukraine. Not really sure which one can be worse though... https://www.radware.com/security/ddos-experts-insider/ert-case-studies/boston-childrens-hospital-ddos-mitigation-case-study/ https://www.radware.com/security/ddos-experts-insider/ert-ca...

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago

DDOSing is illegal, any illegal content on KF is quickly removed.

dapids 4y ago

mccorrinall 4y ago

Cloudflare still protects all those forums which harm people. Kiwifarms is the only one which was sensationized by the twitter crowd. Look at crime.to. They still send bomb threats [1], exchange stolen credit card data [2], harass people to the point where they lose their houses [3] (SWATing, breaking in into their house and much more included), and probably more on a daily basis. Still protected by cloudflare. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. [1] https://archive.ph/mOBGB https://archive.ph/mOBGB [2] just browse the forum [3] https://www.merkur.de/bayern/nuernberg/drachenlord-youtube-winkler-obdachlos-hater-leid-rainer-tiktok-onlyfans-emskirchen-91760296.html https://www.merkur.de/bayern/nuernberg/drachenlord-youtube-w...

paganel 4y ago
There's something very wrong with the game community. I've learned enough during stupid internet fights I have had on reddit to never continue a conversation with an avid gamer, no matter the subject. Stories like this one you linked to on merkur.de (read via Google Translate, but I think they got it right) confirm to me that that was the correct call.
- firtoz 4y ago
  Why game community? It's more like all of the world enjoy games, including these sociopaths. You are chasing a red herring.
  - staticassertion 4y ago
    I think you have to be really in denial if you think that, on average, gamers are not a more toxic community than others. I think it's not that video games make people bad or something like that. But you probably have some demographics - like young men, for example - who have a lot going on in their lives and aren't always well equipped to handle it. The internet desensitizes everyone and I think that that can be a really bad mix with some people who spend time online and might have a hard time in their actual lives. Online harassment would presumably be cathartic for some of those people. People lash out for a reason and this is just lashing out at scale.
    - toxicFork 4y ago
      This can be generalized to any passionate interest community. Like body builders. Young men will be toxic. You just see gamers more because they spend more time on the internet by default.
      - staticassertion 4y ago
        Being on the internet more is a key factor when talking about toxicity on the internet.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

blfr 4y ago

> a forum that is a gathering point for a mob engaging in mass harassment, stalking, and SWATing I keep hearing this allegation but it seems to be supported only by a poorly sourced twitter thread[1] and some articles that dance around the issue. How do we know this, especially the swatting? And why isn't law enforcement stepping in? The operator is an American afaict. It's not like he's some bond villain living in a cave on the other side of the world. [1] https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1565797220531814406 https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/15657972205318144...

zimpenfish 4y ago
> And why isn't law enforcement stepping in? Because 1) they have limited resources and must prioritise and 2) America law enforcement seems to have a distinct lean towards the transphobic / homophobic / white supremacist / right-wing, etc. Just because something is not being actively policed does not mean it's not an actual crime (cf motorists running red lights for an easy example.)
- blfr 4y ago
  Traffic violations are actually policed pretty closely because it's a source of revenue. High tech is employed to identify drivers, and even some shady tricks like shortening the yellow light. So it's not a good example. Regardless, it's a public forum(?), there should be tons of evidence if they routinely instigate swattings.
  - simfree 4y ago
    Traffic enforcement varies widely. Larger jurisdictions here in the Pacific Northwest seem to not enforce anything outside of parking rules in paid areas. Meanwhile some neighboring suburban jurisdictions come down harshly on passerbys, even when the stop was unjustified and no crime occured.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > Traffic violations are actually policed pretty closely I can stand on the main road where I live in London and see 100+ violations an hour with no enforcement. > So it's not a good example. Perfect example if you're in London, though.