4 ms·

Is there any proof, at all, of any swatting, being organized there? seems to be a question that eludes people.

krainboltgreene 4y ago
No one is answering you because it's obvious to even the most intermediate observer where this work is coming from. The only reason anyone would give KF the benefit of the doubt is because they willfully are ignoring the activity going on in KF.
- Cyberdog 4y ago
  So the lack of evidence of wrongdoing is evidence of wrongdoing. Got it. That will certainly fly in court.
  - krainboltgreene 4y ago
    What court? What lack of evidence? Are you even on this earth right now?
    - Cyberdog 4y ago
      > What court? A hypothetical court. I was just using it as an example of how the argument wouldn't hold muster in situations where it would really need to. > What lack of evidence? You posted this: > No one is answering you because it's obvious to even the most intermediate observer where this work is coming from. Again, "well, it's just obvious, dude" is not evidence. It's similar to a "god of the gaps" argument. If there's evidence Kiwi Farms did it, then Kiwi Farms did it, and if there's not evidence that Kiwi Farms did it, then Kiwi Farms still did it. That makes no sense.
      - krainboltgreene 4y ago
        > I was just using it as an example of how the argument wouldn't hold muster in situations where it would really need to. I love when non-lawyers think they have any idea on what holds muster in the court of law.
- philippejara 4y ago
  So there isn't then?
  - krainboltgreene 4y ago
- betwixthewires 4y ago
  What about to people like me, who have only ever heard of kiwi farms in passing, who don't really know anything substantial about any of this stuff and want to know more? Is it obvious to us? I'd like to see what everyone's talking about when they talk about this site, and if they're right, without actually going there. Can you help me out with that?
  - krainboltgreene 4y ago
    You want me to google news articles for you?
    - betwixthewires 4y ago
      No, just show me that what you're saying is true.
      - krainboltgreene 4y ago
        You've had a day and a half to google it.
        betwixthewires 4y ago
        I did google it, still nothing but more people telling me to google it.
e2le 4y ago
I do wish people would archive these pages to dissuade any doubt of wrongdoing.
mpyne 4y ago
On the off-chance that this is a serious question and not gaslighting, start with this investigative journalist's thread: https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1565797220531814406 https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/15657972205318144... This isn't recent either, the same reporter wrote on the site back in 2016: https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-trolls-cheer-trans-womans-suicide-note https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-trolls-cheer-trans-woman... (linked to from his Twitter thread). I personally witnessed Near's live-tweeted descent into despair, culminating in their suicide (https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1409230358977998851?lang=en https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1409230358977998851?lang=en, https://twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408986839743037448 https://twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408986839743037448), all driven by KF. As Near described it: > But Kiwi Farms has made the harassment orders of magnitude worse. It's escalated from attacking me for being autistic, to attacking and doxing my friends, and trying to suicide bait another, just to get a reaction from me. I lost one of my best friends to this. I feel responsible The behavior from just the Daily Beast story alone exceeds the harm caused by things like spamming, for which CloudFlare does ban email users. CloudFlare even runs a dedicated service that "crawls the Internet to stop phishing, Business Email Compromise (BEC), and email supply chain attacks at the earliest stages of the attack" [1]. One could only wonder how magical the Internet would be if CloudFlare could stop doxxing and account hijacking attacks at their earliest stages! Or... you know, at least not facilitate those attacks coming from within their own network. Because once this all crosses into harassment, stalking, doxxing and mass online bullying, it stops being about "speech" and starts being about facilitating and organizing criminal activity. [1] https://www.cloudflare.com/products/zero-trust/email-security/ https://www.cloudflare.com/products/zero-trust/email-securit...
- charcircuit 4y ago
  You sidestepped the question. He asked for proof.
- philippejara 4y ago
  Ok, the investigative journalist's thread shows literally no proof or even evidence that kiwi farms was involved in the swatting, and the man with the note apparently posted it on /pol/(?) so not even kiwi farms was on that one. Neither of the other two links said anything about swatting. I'm serious here, and genuinely trying to understand this underlying consensus that the one to blame for it is that website, but I just don't see it.

No one is answering you because it's obvious to even the most intermediate observer where this work is coming from. The only reason anyone would give KF the benefit of the doubt is because they willfully are ignoring the activity going on in KF.

Cyberdog 4y ago
So the lack of evidence of wrongdoing is evidence of wrongdoing. Got it. That will certainly fly in court.
- krainboltgreene 4y ago
  What court? What lack of evidence? Are you even on this earth right now?
  - Cyberdog 4y ago
    > What court? A hypothetical court. I was just using it as an example of how the argument wouldn't hold muster in situations where it would really need to. > What lack of evidence? You posted this: > No one is answering you because it's obvious to even the most intermediate observer where this work is coming from. Again, "well, it's just obvious, dude" is not evidence. It's similar to a "god of the gaps" argument. If there's evidence Kiwi Farms did it, then Kiwi Farms did it, and if there's not evidence that Kiwi Farms did it, then Kiwi Farms still did it. That makes no sense.
    - krainboltgreene 4y ago
      > I was just using it as an example of how the argument wouldn't hold muster in situations where it would really need to. I love when non-lawyers think they have any idea on what holds muster in the court of law.
philippejara 4y ago
So there isn't then?
- krainboltgreene 4y ago
betwixthewires 4y ago
What about to people like me, who have only ever heard of kiwi farms in passing, who don't really know anything substantial about any of this stuff and want to know more? Is it obvious to us? I'd like to see what everyone's talking about when they talk about this site, and if they're right, without actually going there. Can you help me out with that?
- krainboltgreene 4y ago
  You want me to google news articles for you?
  - betwixthewires 4y ago
    No, just show me that what you're saying is true.
    - krainboltgreene 4y ago
      You've had a day and a half to google it.
      - betwixthewires 4y ago
        I did google it, still nothing but more people telling me to google it.

e2le 4y ago

I do wish people would archive these pages to dissuade any doubt of wrongdoing.

mpyne 4y ago

On the off-chance that this is a serious question and not gaslighting, start with this investigative journalist's thread: https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1565797220531814406 https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/15657972205318144... This isn't recent either, the same reporter wrote on the site back in 2016: https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-trolls-cheer-trans-womans-suicide-note https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-trolls-cheer-trans-woman... (linked to from his Twitter thread). I personally witnessed Near's live-tweeted descent into despair, culminating in their suicide (https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1409230358977998851?lang=en https://twitter.com/eevee/status/1409230358977998851?lang=en, https://twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408986839743037448 https://twitter.com/near_koukai/status/1408986839743037448), all driven by KF. As Near described it: > But Kiwi Farms has made the harassment orders of magnitude worse. It's escalated from attacking me for being autistic, to attacking and doxing my friends, and trying to suicide bait another, just to get a reaction from me. I lost one of my best friends to this. I feel responsible The behavior from just the Daily Beast story alone exceeds the harm caused by things like spamming, for which CloudFlare does ban email users. CloudFlare even runs a dedicated service that "crawls the Internet to stop phishing, Business Email Compromise (BEC), and email supply chain attacks at the earliest stages of the attack" [1]. One could only wonder how magical the Internet would be if CloudFlare could stop doxxing and account hijacking attacks at their earliest stages! Or... you know, at least not facilitate those attacks coming from within their own network. Because once this all crosses into harassment, stalking, doxxing and mass online bullying, it stops being about "speech" and starts being about facilitating and organizing criminal activity. [1] https://www.cloudflare.com/products/zero-trust/email-security/ https://www.cloudflare.com/products/zero-trust/email-securit...

charcircuit 4y ago
You sidestepped the question. He asked for proof.
philippejara 4y ago
Ok, the investigative journalist's thread shows literally no proof or even evidence that kiwi farms was involved in the swatting, and the man with the note apparently posted it on /pol/(?) so not even kiwi farms was on that one. Neither of the other two links said anything about swatting. I'm serious here, and genuinely trying to understand this underlying consensus that the one to blame for it is that website, but I just don't see it.