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I am a free speech absolutist, but I read the Wikipedia page on this site and it seems bad. "Crimes were committed," "People lost their lives" bad. Unjustifiabl

I am a free speech absolutist, but I read the Wikipedia page on this site and it seems bad. "Crimes were committed," "People lost their lives" bad. Unjustifiably bad. That said, is anyone willing to steelman this website? Could this possibly be construed as just a big misunderstanding?

anotherrandom 4y ago
And Cloudflare provides services to terrorist groups, does that make Cloudflare responsible for the actions of the terrorist groups? If yes, Cloudflare is also responsible for death (and more of them) and should be shut down, if no then Kiwifarms is not responsible for death.
wyager 4y ago
subsuboptimal 4y ago
phantom_of_cato 4y ago
> I am a free speech absolutist, but Then you are not a freedom speech absolutist (which is fine, and not completely unreasonable).
Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
The wikipedia page is not honest and completely locked down.
- JYellensFuckboy 4y ago
  Anecdotally, I've noticed an uptick in biased Wikipedia editing platforming questionable claims as facts. It's a bit concerning.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  Wikipedia isn't trustworthy for anything political or controversial: https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ <-written by one of the founders of it
rejectfinite 4y ago
>Crimes were committed," "People lost their lives" bad. Unjustifiably bad. Crimes are committed on Facebook, Messenger, Whatsapp, Instagram, Tor, Signal, Telegram everyday. Better take those down too.
OneOff1864 4y ago
Hi debacle, I was not a user but I perused the site and was fascinated with it. It appeared to be a big 'mumsnet', or a Facebook, but the only rules were to gossip about people others found interesting, to not interact with them directly, and of course, no child pornography. The website is cited I think for killing 3 people, a transgender male to female by the name of Chloe Segal who blamed KiwiFarms in her suicide note, but it is noted that her partner stated there were major issues with Chloe way before KiwiFarms and that she struggled with a lot prior to her death. I cannot remember the second, but the third was a fella in Japan who is cited as killing himself by a friend of his. I think the Kiwis gathered Japanese data from the police of deaths of foreign nationals and there were no American deaths for the timeframe the guy was meant to have died. It appears he may not be dead. In terms of crimes, I think there were people who did make threats, there were two users if I remember who went on to commit shootings, but my counter to that is that Facebook too has had users who committed mass shootings. I believe the KiwiFarms wasn't the issue, more the actual users who did the crimes.
ShowsAlone 4y ago
This is the individual that visited Keffels. He admits it: https://archive.ph/ksqln https://archive.ph/ksqln
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  If the individual also said they were a HN user would you be thinking HN is guilty?
paconbork 4y ago
The actual free speech absolutist position would be "if it's illegal, the government can intervene. Otherwise, it remains"
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  A majority of laws were written before the Internet existed. Be careful what you advocate for, because if you want police to be able to take down a domain via the registrar due to a possibly security threat, then that is what you'll get.

anotherrandom 4y ago

And Cloudflare provides services to terrorist groups, does that make Cloudflare responsible for the actions of the terrorist groups? If yes, Cloudflare is also responsible for death (and more of them) and should be shut down, if no then Kiwifarms is not responsible for death.

wyager 4y ago

subsuboptimal 4y ago

phantom_of_cato 4y ago

> I am a free speech absolutist, but Then you are not a freedom speech absolutist (which is fine, and not completely unreasonable).

Acrobatic_Road 4y ago

The wikipedia page is not honest and completely locked down.

JYellensFuckboy 4y ago
Anecdotally, I've noticed an uptick in biased Wikipedia editing platforming questionable claims as facts. It's a bit concerning.
NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
Wikipedia isn't trustworthy for anything political or controversial: https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ <-written by one of the founders of it

rejectfinite 4y ago

>Crimes were committed," "People lost their lives" bad. Unjustifiably bad. Crimes are committed on Facebook, Messenger, Whatsapp, Instagram, Tor, Signal, Telegram everyday. Better take those down too.

OneOff1864 4y ago

Hi debacle, I was not a user but I perused the site and was fascinated with it. It appeared to be a big 'mumsnet', or a Facebook, but the only rules were to gossip about people others found interesting, to not interact with them directly, and of course, no child pornography. The website is cited I think for killing 3 people, a transgender male to female by the name of Chloe Segal who blamed KiwiFarms in her suicide note, but it is noted that her partner stated there were major issues with Chloe way before KiwiFarms and that she struggled with a lot prior to her death. I cannot remember the second, but the third was a fella in Japan who is cited as killing himself by a friend of his. I think the Kiwis gathered Japanese data from the police of deaths of foreign nationals and there were no American deaths for the timeframe the guy was meant to have died. It appears he may not be dead. In terms of crimes, I think there were people who did make threats, there were two users if I remember who went on to commit shootings, but my counter to that is that Facebook too has had users who committed mass shootings. I believe the KiwiFarms wasn't the issue, more the actual users who did the crimes.

ShowsAlone 4y ago

This is the individual that visited Keffels. He admits it: https://archive.ph/ksqln https://archive.ph/ksqln

_-david-_ 4y ago
If the individual also said they were a HN user would you be thinking HN is guilty?

paconbork 4y ago

The actual free speech absolutist position would be "if it's illegal, the government can intervene. Otherwise, it remains"

encryptluks2 4y ago
A majority of laws were written before the Internet existed. Be careful what you advocate for, because if you want police to be able to take down a domain via the registrar due to a possibly security threat, then that is what you'll get.