3 ms·

> figure out what the hell should be done, systematically, about hate speech on the internet. I honestly wish there were some organization focused on the cause

> figure out what the hell should be done, systematically, about hate speech on the internet. I honestly wish there were some organization focused on the causes of hate speech rather than censoring hate speech. What caused this? Why are Kiwifarm users so hateful? One does not just hate out of the blue, especially not to the degree of the actions they've taken (judging from their Wikipedia article). Then there's the other end of this: To walk a thorny world, don't pave the world, wear sandals. How can anyone be harassed online to end their life? Were there not enough settings, blocklists, and such to keep the harassment away? Were they unable to access the services that would have helped them better handle the harassment that did get through?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> How can anyone be harassed online to the degree that there were not enough settings They were showing up at peoples’ houses and SWATting them. This isn’t a problem technology can solve.
- fallingupwards 4y ago
- tenpies 4y ago
  I don't think technology even necessarily has a role to play here. After all, hate speech began the minute we developed language.
- JYellensFuckboy 4y ago
  Have KF users ever taken credit for SWATing? It's my impression that they were - or at least Moon - always careful about not crossing the legal line.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > they were - or at least Moon - always careful about not crossing the legal line No clue. We likely won't know until law enforcement's investigations are over. In the meantime, everyone is free to come to their own threshold. That's essentially what's going on here. If it turns out Cloudflare erred, they'd have to show the evidence that pushed them to take such an extraordinary step to regain trust.
  - bobsmooth 4y ago
    The truth doesn't matter.
dale_glass 4y ago
> What caused this? Why are Kiwifarm users so hateful? One does not just hate out of the blue, especially not to the degree of the actions they've taken (judging from their Wikipedia article). A lack of moderation to remove hate. Hate breeds hate, and drives good people away. In a similar way that bullshit breeds more bullshit unless removed. Let me try an analogy for technical people. Say you're a person deeply knowledgeable about computers and technology, and you're posting in an audio related forum. Somebody posts a glowing review of an expensive device that claims that shaving the edge of a CD and painting the border with a marker will give you a bigger soundstage, more clarity and make the audio sound crisper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-QxLAxwxkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-QxLAxwxkM You can try to explain why it's bullshit, but it's hard. You have to go into details about how a CD actually works, why this BS about reflections has no effect on a CD mechanism, how error correction works... you'll have to write several pages of deeply technical information that you have to boil down to something understandable to mere humans. It's a tough job. Not only you need technical understanding, but you also need to be good with words, and good at explaining complex concepts simply. And you have to have the time and dedication to spend an hour or two writing about it for free. That's a lot of unusual characteristics for a single person to have. Then somebody goes "shut up nerd, it sounds better!" in response. And they proceed to post more reviews of volume knobs that somehow improve the sound because the wood is special, gold plated optical cables, and other such junk. It takes a whole lot more effort to provide good information on a complex matter, and virtually none to spout bullshit. So eventually the smart people will get fed up and leave. Especially because they can find places where they're appreciated -- they'll find a home on a more specialized home where their expertise is actually valued. Meanwhile the original forum will get even more BS. Same happens with social topics. It's easy to spread conspiracy theories and hate. It's hard to explain complex social issues. Without moderation the first will trivially overwhelm the second.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > It takes a whole lot more effort to provide good information on a complex matter, and virtually none to spout bullshit. "A lie will fly around the whole world while the truth is getting its boots on." Misattributed to Twain, Churchill, and others, but very accurate.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> How can anyone be harassed online to the degree that there were not enough settings They were showing up at peoples’ houses and SWATting them. This isn’t a problem technology can solve.

fallingupwards 4y ago
tenpies 4y ago
I don't think technology even necessarily has a role to play here. After all, hate speech began the minute we developed language.
JYellensFuckboy 4y ago
Have KF users ever taken credit for SWATing? It's my impression that they were - or at least Moon - always careful about not crossing the legal line.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > they were - or at least Moon - always careful about not crossing the legal line No clue. We likely won't know until law enforcement's investigations are over. In the meantime, everyone is free to come to their own threshold. That's essentially what's going on here. If it turns out Cloudflare erred, they'd have to show the evidence that pushed them to take such an extraordinary step to regain trust.
- bobsmooth 4y ago
  The truth doesn't matter.

dale_glass 4y ago

> What caused this? Why are Kiwifarm users so hateful? One does not just hate out of the blue, especially not to the degree of the actions they've taken (judging from their Wikipedia article). A lack of moderation to remove hate. Hate breeds hate, and drives good people away. In a similar way that bullshit breeds more bullshit unless removed. Let me try an analogy for technical people. Say you're a person deeply knowledgeable about computers and technology, and you're posting in an audio related forum. Somebody posts a glowing review of an expensive device that claims that shaving the edge of a CD and painting the border with a marker will give you a bigger soundstage, more clarity and make the audio sound crisper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-QxLAxwxkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-QxLAxwxkM You can try to explain why it's bullshit, but it's hard. You have to go into details about how a CD actually works, why this BS about reflections has no effect on a CD mechanism, how error correction works... you'll have to write several pages of deeply technical information that you have to boil down to something understandable to mere humans. It's a tough job. Not only you need technical understanding, but you also need to be good with words, and good at explaining complex concepts simply. And you have to have the time and dedication to spend an hour or two writing about it for free. That's a lot of unusual characteristics for a single person to have. Then somebody goes "shut up nerd, it sounds better!" in response. And they proceed to post more reviews of volume knobs that somehow improve the sound because the wood is special, gold plated optical cables, and other such junk. It takes a whole lot more effort to provide good information on a complex matter, and virtually none to spout bullshit. So eventually the smart people will get fed up and leave. Especially because they can find places where they're appreciated -- they'll find a home on a more specialized home where their expertise is actually valued. Meanwhile the original forum will get even more BS. Same happens with social topics. It's easy to spread conspiracy theories and hate. It's hard to explain complex social issues. Without moderation the first will trivially overwhelm the second.

ceejayoz 4y ago
> It takes a whole lot more effort to provide good information on a complex matter, and virtually none to spout bullshit. "A lie will fly around the whole world while the truth is getting its boots on." Misattributed to Twain, Churchill, and others, but very accurate.