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> The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense. I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and as

> The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense. I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person. They have a responsibility to their investors to insure that their brand isn’t used to coordinate violence. Dont just shrug your shoulders while a small group invites violence because “that’s just too bad” We all have a responsibility to discern what is valuable speech and what is corrosive. Mentally ill people exist, and they are more than happy to use these forums, and they are often used in these forums as tools.

Handytinge 4y ago
> We all have a responsibility to discern what is valuable speech and what is corrosive. That's not the internet I signed up for, and I don't agree with or support it. Very sad state of affairs.
digitaLandscape 4y ago
trasz 4y ago
wyager 4y ago
> I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare Yes he does - the activity of KF posters is public. The amount of bullshitting going on here is insane. People are just making things up wholesale.
- altcognito 4y ago
  Cloudflare has probably more than one person now involved in monitoring with realtime tools what is being done on their network. This doesn't take a lot of intuition to think that they have a better idea than a random person on the internet.
  - Karunamon 4y ago
    When the topic under discussion are the contents of a publicly available website, unless you think that Cloudflare has some kind of tooling scanning for specific terms on the CDN origin (why?), no, I am pretty confident in saying they do not have any additional information. This is not some arcane matter of network management, this is the public contents of a public website that anyone can verify.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      The additional information would be “the board is getting pissed and you need to fix this now”.
  - rejectfinite 4y ago
    The posts are public on a public forum. You dont need an account. Like Twitter! :) >realtime tools what is being done on their network. That inspects every post? That sees some hidden forums for ultra doxxing and crime?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ineedasername 4y ago
      I don’t know where posts are coming from when I see them online. We can only guess at the specifics (which will hopefully be released when there’s time for an after-action report) but presumably cloudflare may be able to see ip addresses and have some idea of location. If someone posts “I’m coming to kill you” a dozen times but the ip is in Europe and doesn’t appear to be a VPN then that’s less cause for concern than the same posts made by someone with a residential ISP ip that’s half an hour away from the target. Of course that may not at all resemble what happened, but you are incorrect to believe the cloudflare doesn’t have a privileged position that allows them more information.
  - lupire 4y ago
    CF provided domain DDOS protection, not serving, for KF. So content/hosting isn't part of service CF were providing.
dmix 4y ago
Then they should provide at least some basic details. Trusting them to be honest is silly. This sort of thing needs transparency.
jyrkesh 4y ago
> I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person. I don't believe that Cloudflare gathered the same volume of info that many others have about KF. OP's point is that behavior as bad or worse than what's been going on (yes, including super detailed doxxing, swatting, death threats, and the like) have all been going on for YEARS on KF, and Cloudflare paid no mind until a larger campaign got going. Full disclosure: I'm actually disappointed that they made the decision to cut them off. Not because I'm pro-KF at ALL, it is absolutely abhorrent. But I do tend to peruse extremist circles on both sides to understand the radicalism a little better, and generally think that keeping these folks relegated to unseen areas is net-negative. But to the original point, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this decision wasn't primarily catalyzed by the PR calculus of more people being in the "shut it down" camp than the "leave it up" camp (which makes sense to me, as soon as the spotlight is cast, most people are going to say it's disgusting and should be taken down).
- nemothekid 4y ago
  >I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this decision wasn't primarily catalyzed by the PR calculus You seem be taking a very uncharitable view of CF here. Why isn't "the PR around blocking Kiwifarms made Kiwifarms posters more agitated until they did something that CF couldn't take lying down" an option? That's perfectly consistent with recent events and what CF posted in their blog (and frankly, more likely).
  - dogecoinbase 4y ago
    CF no longer deserves the benefit of the doubt. See e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=32705613 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=32705613
  - AbrahamParangi 4y ago
    You should, as a general rule, never take a charitable view of the actions of businesses. If you start with the most machiavellian interpretation possible you will be more right than wrong. Not that you will be always right, but absent special information it is the presumptive default.
jackmott 4y ago
rejectfinite 4y ago
>I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person. There are "legitimate threats to body and person." on every chat platform everyday. Yet they are still operating. Could this offending content not be reported to moderators and admins? Edit: Just flag and downvote me with no reply, good discussion. This site is turning into facebook/reddit.
abigail95 4y ago
Having never read Kiwifarms I don't know whether the threats are real or not. But it's not like the person/s they are targeting, or their plans are secret CF is making a specific claim that law enforcement is too slow against the escalting risk. Why would this be true? Kiwifarms seems like a big problem but it's a small fish in the total criminal pool. It's not like a Kiwifarms post goes up and a bomb goes off 5 minutes later. If the police can send a swat team anywhere in the US within 2 hours for a hoax, I'm certain the same resource exists for actual threats.
andywood 4y ago
I have the same information, unless CF pays someone to lurk the Farms more than I do. Unlikely. This is a pretext plain and simple. Prince is full of it. There was one fedpost and it was taken down. It happens. There's no machine learning algo scanning new comments to see if they sound like plausible threats.
asah 4y ago
We can't know, because Cloudflare provided no evidence (e.g. redacted examples) to justify their decision.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
istinetz 4y ago
>Mentally ill people exist, and they are more than happy to use these forums, and they are often used in these forums as tools. I can say literally the exact same thing about twitter. This is extremely high bar you're setting for this one site, that you're not following for literally any other social media.

Handytinge 4y ago

> We all have a responsibility to discern what is valuable speech and what is corrosive. That's not the internet I signed up for, and I don't agree with or support it. Very sad state of affairs.

digitaLandscape 4y ago

trasz 4y ago

wyager 4y ago

> I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare Yes he does - the activity of KF posters is public. The amount of bullshitting going on here is insane. People are just making things up wholesale.

altcognito 4y ago
Cloudflare has probably more than one person now involved in monitoring with realtime tools what is being done on their network. This doesn't take a lot of intuition to think that they have a better idea than a random person on the internet.
- Karunamon 4y ago
  When the topic under discussion are the contents of a publicly available website, unless you think that Cloudflare has some kind of tooling scanning for specific terms on the CDN origin (why?), no, I am pretty confident in saying they do not have any additional information. This is not some arcane matter of network management, this is the public contents of a public website that anyone can verify.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The additional information would be “the board is getting pissed and you need to fix this now”.
- rejectfinite 4y ago
  The posts are public on a public forum. You dont need an account. Like Twitter! :) >realtime tools what is being done on their network. That inspects every post? That sees some hidden forums for ultra doxxing and crime?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ineedasername 4y ago
    I don’t know where posts are coming from when I see them online. We can only guess at the specifics (which will hopefully be released when there’s time for an after-action report) but presumably cloudflare may be able to see ip addresses and have some idea of location. If someone posts “I’m coming to kill you” a dozen times but the ip is in Europe and doesn’t appear to be a VPN then that’s less cause for concern than the same posts made by someone with a residential ISP ip that’s half an hour away from the target. Of course that may not at all resemble what happened, but you are incorrect to believe the cloudflare doesn’t have a privileged position that allows them more information.
- lupire 4y ago
  CF provided domain DDOS protection, not serving, for KF. So content/hosting isn't part of service CF were providing.

dmix 4y ago

Then they should provide at least some basic details. Trusting them to be honest is silly. This sort of thing needs transparency.

jyrkesh 4y ago

> I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person. I don't believe that Cloudflare gathered the same volume of info that many others have about KF. OP's point is that behavior as bad or worse than what's been going on (yes, including super detailed doxxing, swatting, death threats, and the like) have all been going on for YEARS on KF, and Cloudflare paid no mind until a larger campaign got going. Full disclosure: I'm actually disappointed that they made the decision to cut them off. Not because I'm pro-KF at ALL, it is absolutely abhorrent. But I do tend to peruse extremist circles on both sides to understand the radicalism a little better, and generally think that keeping these folks relegated to unseen areas is net-negative. But to the original point, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this decision wasn't primarily catalyzed by the PR calculus of more people being in the "shut it down" camp than the "leave it up" camp (which makes sense to me, as soon as the spotlight is cast, most people are going to say it's disgusting and should be taken down).

nemothekid 4y ago
>I think it's disingenuous to suggest that this decision wasn't primarily catalyzed by the PR calculus You seem be taking a very uncharitable view of CF here. Why isn't "the PR around blocking Kiwifarms made Kiwifarms posters more agitated until they did something that CF couldn't take lying down" an option? That's perfectly consistent with recent events and what CF posted in their blog (and frankly, more likely).
- dogecoinbase 4y ago
  CF no longer deserves the benefit of the doubt. See e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=32705613 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=32705613
- AbrahamParangi 4y ago
  You should, as a general rule, never take a charitable view of the actions of businesses. If you start with the most machiavellian interpretation possible you will be more right than wrong. Not that you will be always right, but absent special information it is the presumptive default.

jackmott 4y ago

rejectfinite 4y ago

>I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person. There are "legitimate threats to body and person." on every chat platform everyday. Yet they are still operating. Could this offending content not be reported to moderators and admins? Edit: Just flag and downvote me with no reply, good discussion. This site is turning into facebook/reddit.

abigail95 4y ago

Having never read Kiwifarms I don't know whether the threats are real or not. But it's not like the person/s they are targeting, or their plans are secret CF is making a specific claim that law enforcement is too slow against the escalting risk. Why would this be true? Kiwifarms seems like a big problem but it's a small fish in the total criminal pool. It's not like a Kiwifarms post goes up and a bomb goes off 5 minutes later. If the police can send a swat team anywhere in the US within 2 hours for a hoax, I'm certain the same resource exists for actual threats.

andywood 4y ago

I have the same information, unless CF pays someone to lurk the Farms more than I do. Unlikely. This is a pretext plain and simple. Prince is full of it. There was one fedpost and it was taken down. It happens. There's no machine learning algo scanning new comments to see if they sound like plausible threats.

asah 4y ago

We can't know, because Cloudflare provided no evidence (e.g. redacted examples) to justify their decision.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

istinetz 4y ago

>Mentally ill people exist, and they are more than happy to use these forums, and they are often used in these forums as tools. I can say literally the exact same thing about twitter. This is extremely high bar you're setting for this one site, that you're not following for literally any other social media.