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I have mixed feelings about brew; it’s very convenient but the one time I reported a bug I instantly got banned and yelled at because of my wording. It was ver

I have mixed feelings about brew; it’s very convenient but the one time I reported a bug I instantly got banned and yelled at because of my wording. It was very one-sided as I wasn’t able to apologize or even explain due to the insta-ban. My one other interaction with brew community was similar; absolutely any critique is taken as a holy war. I’d really rather Apple made it unnecessary to plug this hole and render brew redundant. ADD: for the record my “offense” was saying “Are you for real?” when they screwed up and reverted back to an ancient version. I was shocked by that lack of QA but sure, I could have said it better. Still, cancel culture meant the end of that conversation.

TillE 4y ago
> for the record my “offense” was saying “Are you for real?” when they screwed up It's really not hard to just not be a jerk, even when someone else has made a mistake. Just be kind. Or at the very least, be calm and factual and nothing else. It makes everyone's lives a little better, including your own.
- FullyFunctional 4y ago
  Hindsight is so easy and I wanted to apologize, but wasn’t allowed. It was certainly taken as more offensive than I had intended and I realized that, but too late.
- userbinator 4y ago
  It says a lot that you perceive such a short and IMHO well-deserved expression of frustration as "being a jerk". If I was on the receiving end of that, I would only apologise as being the one at fault. That's what defuses the situation instead of aggravating it. It makes everyone's lives a little better, including your own. No it doesn't. This "forced positivity" is far worse in the long term.
  - acdha 4y ago
    Another way of thinking about it: Homebrew is a volunteer project which tons of people depend on for work but don't contribute to. If the volunteers get a ton of low-value comments from people who are talking like they have a support contract, blocking those people is a way of protecting the volunteers. I may not like it as the ideal outcome but I prefer that maintainers don't burn out, too.
    - userbinator 4y ago
      In other words, you're saying those volunteers are just in it for their own gratification, which explains very well the attitude they treat everyone else with. Blocking only encourages further polarisation and animosity. There is nothing to "protect" but their own fragile egos.
      - acdha 4y ago
        No, I’m saying that being mean to volunteers is never a good move. If you want to have influence on a project, roll up your sleeves and contribute - and still be polite, nobody is getting paid to deal with rude people.
        userbinator 4y ago
        Once again, I do not think that is "rude" AT ALL! Their fucked-up sense of perception is at fault here. I really wonder how such people can live their lives with such thin skin.
massysett 4y ago
Try Macports. I’ve been using it for years with no issues.
thiht 4y ago
> my “offense” was saying “Are you for real?” when they screwed up Volunteers banning someone with an asshole tendency is not cancel culture. Just don’t be like that. People screw up and make mistakes, no need to insult them for it. The proper way to react is to thank them for fixing it.
- Handytinge 4y ago
  I find it interesting that you see this as an "asshole tendancy". I don't believe most people in my country would take this as an insult. There are many people from many countries (and subcultures within those countries) with differing degrees of what they will take offense from. From my perspective, the developer perceived a slight incorrectly for sure.
- FullyFunctional 4y ago
  I would agree with this, but judging and banning people on one single exchange is as bad as being a jerk.
  - comboy 4y ago
    Personally I think it's perfectly fine. Just a few people can take a lot of your mental energy and make you less interested in your own project. Not being a company you don't have to deal with this and somehow there seem to be power law distribution like everywhere else - I mean if you provide support, a few people will use as much of your time as the whole bottom half of them. So even if you would have 90% chance of false positive it may be worth it. At the same time, if you treat them charitable, ignore emotions and do your best with such people/comments, they may also turn out to be great contributors and valuable feedback. Just the fact that somebody takes his time, his most valuable resource, to provide any kind of feedback is something. There are popular projects with known bugs which take a lot of time to reach developers because everybody is busy with their own stuff and doesn't have time to report stuff which others may just as well report. Plus, such person is more likely to share their experience with others which may discourage or encourage some potential contributors like it is happening right now. It is amazing how much PR can a single person do over the years when she has really strong opinion about something.
voxl 4y ago
This has nothing to do with cancel culture, you're just a moron. An open source maintainer gets to set their boundaries with you however they want. If they want to instantly ban you for being an ass that's on them. If anything, what you are doing RIGHT NOW is inciting cancel culture. You want the culture of Mac users to know you were slighted by a brew maintainer, and that they should be punished in some way for that interaction.
- FullyFunctional 4y ago
  It is interesting that you feel it necessary to use name calling in a thread about abusive language.
  - voxl 4y ago
    Yeah people with no brain cells really make my blood boil.
jasonlotito 4y ago
> cancel culture It's not cancel culture. It's breaking the rules and someone upholding rules. "I wanted to apologize" I'm pretty sure if you really wanted to apologize, you could have. Being banned in one location doesn't preclude you from reaching out in other ways. Finally, you say that was your only offense, but I need proof that this was the ONLY thing you did that was offensive, or that was just the straw that broke the camels back. Considering you equated "upholding rules" as "cancel culture" you aren't really unbiased.
userbinator 4y ago
It's not just you; I've only had to touch brew a rare few times (because I normally don't work on Apple stuff unless I absolutely need to for some reason), and I also quickly noticed how the "discussions" on issues are absolutely one-sided most of the time. They are extremely quick to take offense. In other words, they basically have the same attitude as Apple itself.
politelemon 4y ago
I find the comments responding to you, defending their behaviour, thoroughly unsettling. But neither is the behaviour of the team, nor these comments, surprising. It's a slice of the culture that pervades the user base and development team and has been so for several years.

TillE 4y ago

> for the record my “offense” was saying “Are you for real?” when they screwed up It's really not hard to just not be a jerk, even when someone else has made a mistake. Just be kind. Or at the very least, be calm and factual and nothing else. It makes everyone's lives a little better, including your own.

FullyFunctional 4y ago
Hindsight is so easy and I wanted to apologize, but wasn’t allowed. It was certainly taken as more offensive than I had intended and I realized that, but too late.
userbinator 4y ago
It says a lot that you perceive such a short and IMHO well-deserved expression of frustration as "being a jerk". If I was on the receiving end of that, I would only apologise as being the one at fault. That's what defuses the situation instead of aggravating it. It makes everyone's lives a little better, including your own. No it doesn't. This "forced positivity" is far worse in the long term.
- acdha 4y ago
  Another way of thinking about it: Homebrew is a volunteer project which tons of people depend on for work but don't contribute to. If the volunteers get a ton of low-value comments from people who are talking like they have a support contract, blocking those people is a way of protecting the volunteers. I may not like it as the ideal outcome but I prefer that maintainers don't burn out, too.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    In other words, you're saying those volunteers are just in it for their own gratification, which explains very well the attitude they treat everyone else with. Blocking only encourages further polarisation and animosity. There is nothing to "protect" but their own fragile egos.
    - acdha 4y ago
      No, I’m saying that being mean to volunteers is never a good move. If you want to have influence on a project, roll up your sleeves and contribute - and still be polite, nobody is getting paid to deal with rude people.
      - userbinator 4y ago
        Once again, I do not think that is "rude" AT ALL! Their fucked-up sense of perception is at fault here. I really wonder how such people can live their lives with such thin skin.

massysett 4y ago

Try Macports. I’ve been using it for years with no issues.

thiht 4y ago

> my “offense” was saying “Are you for real?” when they screwed up Volunteers banning someone with an asshole tendency is not cancel culture. Just don’t be like that. People screw up and make mistakes, no need to insult them for it. The proper way to react is to thank them for fixing it.

Handytinge 4y ago
I find it interesting that you see this as an "asshole tendancy". I don't believe most people in my country would take this as an insult. There are many people from many countries (and subcultures within those countries) with differing degrees of what they will take offense from. From my perspective, the developer perceived a slight incorrectly for sure.
FullyFunctional 4y ago
I would agree with this, but judging and banning people on one single exchange is as bad as being a jerk.
- comboy 4y ago
  Personally I think it's perfectly fine. Just a few people can take a lot of your mental energy and make you less interested in your own project. Not being a company you don't have to deal with this and somehow there seem to be power law distribution like everywhere else - I mean if you provide support, a few people will use as much of your time as the whole bottom half of them. So even if you would have 90% chance of false positive it may be worth it. At the same time, if you treat them charitable, ignore emotions and do your best with such people/comments, they may also turn out to be great contributors and valuable feedback. Just the fact that somebody takes his time, his most valuable resource, to provide any kind of feedback is something. There are popular projects with known bugs which take a lot of time to reach developers because everybody is busy with their own stuff and doesn't have time to report stuff which others may just as well report. Plus, such person is more likely to share their experience with others which may discourage or encourage some potential contributors like it is happening right now. It is amazing how much PR can a single person do over the years when she has really strong opinion about something.

voxl 4y ago

This has nothing to do with cancel culture, you're just a moron. An open source maintainer gets to set their boundaries with you however they want. If they want to instantly ban you for being an ass that's on them. If anything, what you are doing RIGHT NOW is inciting cancel culture. You want the culture of Mac users to know you were slighted by a brew maintainer, and that they should be punished in some way for that interaction.

FullyFunctional 4y ago
It is interesting that you feel it necessary to use name calling in a thread about abusive language.
- voxl 4y ago
  Yeah people with no brain cells really make my blood boil.

jasonlotito 4y ago

> cancel culture It's not cancel culture. It's breaking the rules and someone upholding rules. "I wanted to apologize" I'm pretty sure if you really wanted to apologize, you could have. Being banned in one location doesn't preclude you from reaching out in other ways. Finally, you say that was your only offense, but I need proof that this was the ONLY thing you did that was offensive, or that was just the straw that broke the camels back. Considering you equated "upholding rules" as "cancel culture" you aren't really unbiased.

userbinator 4y ago

It's not just you; I've only had to touch brew a rare few times (because I normally don't work on Apple stuff unless I absolutely need to for some reason), and I also quickly noticed how the "discussions" on issues are absolutely one-sided most of the time. They are extremely quick to take offense. In other words, they basically have the same attitude as Apple itself.

politelemon 4y ago

I find the comments responding to you, defending their behaviour, thoroughly unsettling. But neither is the behaviour of the team, nor these comments, surprising. It's a slice of the culture that pervades the user base and development team and has been so for several years.