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I clicked on this and expected something really bad about brew. It turns out just the default setting doesn’t satisfy the writer’s use case. The energy and att

by zenlf 4y ago

I clicked on this and expected something really bad about brew. It turns out just the default setting doesn’t satisfy the writer’s use case. The energy and attitude of this article really sticks me as odd especially considering Brew is free to use and not some sort of default package manager that comes with your macOS. If you want to write a guide to do something, great. You contribute to the collective knowledge base, but there is absolutely no need having this combative attitude towards somebody are doing the same.

iepathos 4y ago
Yeah, I was surprised the author had an issue with using /opt since that's the expected location in *nix for the installation of add-on application software packages. Maybe he's running a multi-user machine and really wants brew in his home directory for that reason.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  If anything, Brew going in /opt makes a whole lot more sense than the old default of /usr/local. Supporting individual per-user installs in the home directory would be really nice of course, but I guess that's just not something they intend to support (it's offered on Linux on the "you are on your own, good luck" basis).
  - craigching 4y ago
    Agreed. When brew installed in /usr/local I ranted much like this post. I’m much happier with brew since the move to /opt.
nerdponx 4y ago
I think it's "cool" in some circle to hate on Homebrew. It's not my favorite piece of software (I prefer MacPorts), but it's improved a lot over the years and its existence does a lot of good for a hell of a lot of people.
Decker87 4y ago
It's what gets the clicks.
lapcat 4y ago
Serious question: Why do Hacker News commenters constantly "tone police" articles that are not written for Hacker News? I don't know what criticisms of an article's tone contribute to the collective knowledge base. If an article author did not show the respect toward something that you think something deserves, you're entitled to your personal feelings, but are we here just to say "I like this" or "I don't like that"? It always seems like HN revels in diversions, irrelevancies, and nitpicking, which typically distracts from the main points of an article. As proof of this, the OP is currently the top voted comment for the article, and a similar comment is the 2nd most upvoted.
- acdha 4y ago
  There are two trends at work here: the most generic is the tendency for clickbait to drown out more substantial work. In this case, the provocative title isn't supported by the contents so it'll leave most readers disappointed. The second is that there are a lot of HN users who are active open source developers and that community has grown increasingly tired of whining by people who feel entitled to have their opinions shape projects without doing any work to help those projects. Starting with “Brew Is a Bad Neighbor”, he basically craps all over a huge amount of work which hundreds of developers have given him for free and can't even acknowledge things like them having given him the ability to do exactly what he wants – note the little snide parts like “(grudgingly?)” or the way the information presented in the default documentation is described as some kind of secret reveal. Note that he has _never_ attempted to contribute to either project: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/issues?q=author%3Apudquick https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/issues?q=author%3A... https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues?q=author%3Apudquick https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues?q=author%3Apudquick It's perfectly fine not to contribute to projects you use, or to have strong opinions about how to architect things, but it'll definitely rub people the wrong way to not to contribute but have a “Why Wasn't I Consulted!?!” post. It's also common for people here to question things because they don't agree that a particular post is worth the community's time. Many of the comments here seem like meta-discussion to the submitter.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > In this case, the provocative title isn't supported by the contents so it'll leave most readers disappointed. One problem is with Hacker News itself: it makes no space for context other than an article title. Whereas the gist was originally posted by the author in a tweet that said "Wrote a guide on how I keep homebrew in its place" and also had a screenshot of some of the article contents. And the people who would see it were those who followed the author (a lot of Mac admins). HN submitters are not supposed to editorialize an article title. But, maybe HN should make room for an article summary that does editorialize! Google search results for example have a little summary too, not just a link and a title. So you can make some kind of judgment about the content before clicking. > it'll definitely rub people the wrong way to not to contribute but have a “Why Wasn't I Consulted!?!” post How is this one such a post? To be clear, though, there are some people who only use homebrew because some project requires it, and not because they want to use homebrew. So contributing to homebrew is the last thing they'd want to do, even though they use it sometimes, reluctantly. It's fairly common for the cheapest thing to become the most popular thing, even if it turns out to be one of the worst things possible. Cheap and free too often crowd out better possibilities. With that in mind, I don't take "they provide it for free" to make something immune from criticism. My unpopular opinion is that there's actually too much open source in the world, and software developers are undermining themselves in the race to the bottom. > Many of the comments here seem like meta-discussion to the submitter. Well, I think it's unfair to take that out on the article author, who did not submit it to HN. For whatever reason, HN does not allow downvoting of articles, only upvoting. I would take that up with dang. :-) On the other hand, the article does contain useful instructions that are worthwhile for some people.
JoeyBananas 4y ago
As a developer you can barely do anything on MacOS without brew.

by zenlf 4y ago

iepathos 4y ago

Yeah, I was surprised the author had an issue with using /opt since that's the expected location in *nix for the installation of add-on application software packages. Maybe he's running a multi-user machine and really wants brew in his home directory for that reason.

nerdponx 4y ago
If anything, Brew going in /opt makes a whole lot more sense than the old default of /usr/local. Supporting individual per-user installs in the home directory would be really nice of course, but I guess that's just not something they intend to support (it's offered on Linux on the "you are on your own, good luck" basis).
- craigching 4y ago
  Agreed. When brew installed in /usr/local I ranted much like this post. I’m much happier with brew since the move to /opt.

nerdponx 4y ago

I think it's "cool" in some circle to hate on Homebrew. It's not my favorite piece of software (I prefer MacPorts), but it's improved a lot over the years and its existence does a lot of good for a hell of a lot of people.

Decker87 4y ago

It's what gets the clicks.

lapcat 4y ago

Serious question: Why do Hacker News commenters constantly "tone police" articles that are not written for Hacker News? I don't know what criticisms of an article's tone contribute to the collective knowledge base. If an article author did not show the respect toward something that you think something deserves, you're entitled to your personal feelings, but are we here just to say "I like this" or "I don't like that"? It always seems like HN revels in diversions, irrelevancies, and nitpicking, which typically distracts from the main points of an article. As proof of this, the OP is currently the top voted comment for the article, and a similar comment is the 2nd most upvoted.

acdha 4y ago
There are two trends at work here: the most generic is the tendency for clickbait to drown out more substantial work. In this case, the provocative title isn't supported by the contents so it'll leave most readers disappointed. The second is that there are a lot of HN users who are active open source developers and that community has grown increasingly tired of whining by people who feel entitled to have their opinions shape projects without doing any work to help those projects. Starting with “Brew Is a Bad Neighbor”, he basically craps all over a huge amount of work which hundreds of developers have given him for free and can't even acknowledge things like them having given him the ability to do exactly what he wants – note the little snide parts like “(grudgingly?)” or the way the information presented in the default documentation is described as some kind of secret reveal. Note that he has _never_ attempted to contribute to either project: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/issues?q=author%3Apudquick https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/issues?q=author%3A... https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues?q=author%3Apudquick https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues?q=author%3Apudquick It's perfectly fine not to contribute to projects you use, or to have strong opinions about how to architect things, but it'll definitely rub people the wrong way to not to contribute but have a “Why Wasn't I Consulted!?!” post. It's also common for people here to question things because they don't agree that a particular post is worth the community's time. Many of the comments here seem like meta-discussion to the submitter.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > In this case, the provocative title isn't supported by the contents so it'll leave most readers disappointed. One problem is with Hacker News itself: it makes no space for context other than an article title. Whereas the gist was originally posted by the author in a tweet that said "Wrote a guide on how I keep homebrew in its place" and also had a screenshot of some of the article contents. And the people who would see it were those who followed the author (a lot of Mac admins). HN submitters are not supposed to editorialize an article title. But, maybe HN should make room for an article summary that does editorialize! Google search results for example have a little summary too, not just a link and a title. So you can make some kind of judgment about the content before clicking. > it'll definitely rub people the wrong way to not to contribute but have a “Why Wasn't I Consulted!?!” post How is this one such a post? To be clear, though, there are some people who only use homebrew because some project requires it, and not because they want to use homebrew. So contributing to homebrew is the last thing they'd want to do, even though they use it sometimes, reluctantly. It's fairly common for the cheapest thing to become the most popular thing, even if it turns out to be one of the worst things possible. Cheap and free too often crowd out better possibilities. With that in mind, I don't take "they provide it for free" to make something immune from criticism. My unpopular opinion is that there's actually too much open source in the world, and software developers are undermining themselves in the race to the bottom. > Many of the comments here seem like meta-discussion to the submitter. Well, I think it's unfair to take that out on the article author, who did not submit it to HN. For whatever reason, HN does not allow downvoting of articles, only upvoting. I would take that up with dang. :-) On the other hand, the article does contain useful instructions that are worthwhile for some people.

JoeyBananas 4y ago

As a developer you can barely do anything on MacOS without brew.