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You’re projecting hard. My niece happily eats the chicken she helped raise and watched be slaughtered and butchered. I also knew where meat came from as a chil

You’re projecting hard. My niece happily eats the chicken she helped raise and watched be slaughtered and butchered. I also knew where meat came from as a child and that didn’t bother me. These grand moralistic pronouncements don’t seem true… and ignore that carrying them out would be the death of 35M cattle, 500M chickens, etc. A near total devastation of their species, who primarily exist as our food source. Should we stop the worst abuses of industrial farming? — yes, and that’s already happening. But spare us the grandiose speeches demanding we cull food herds as a moral imperative.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
That's why I didn't say all kids - of course there are exceptions. And your example is not how most of us get animal meat. Kids in cities don't have a garden where they can raise their own chickens. I'm talking about the realities of factory farming and slaughterhouses - where animals lead a miserable life. And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Of course it would be a transition away from large scale animal farming to more sustainable plant based farming and maybe some small family run animal farms. It would mean removing the huge subsidies the meat and factory farm industry is getting and using those subsidies to help farmers transition to sustainable farming. The UN, scientists from the IPCC and various other organizations urge us to reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat & dairy if we want to limit global heating to 1.5C. But hey, don't look up. And what's wrong with having moral values that extend to other living beings on this planet? Killing animals and raising them in factory farms is cruel [0] - if you disagree then I'd like to hear how it's not cruel. Do you think an animal happily gives up their life so we can have a burger? Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? [0] Richard Dawkins: No Civilized Person Accepts Slavery So Why Do We Accept Animal Cruelty? | Big Think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  > And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Right here: > Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? Where do you think the animals go, if we stop using them for food? You come across as demanding we cull our food herds, without replacing them — and then justifying it by saying that an animal wouldn’t want to be a burger… apparently saying they’d rather their species be annihilated entirely. I’d rather have a harsh life than no life — why would I assume the opposite about animals?
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    I think you misunderstood that sentence. Of course things wouldn't change over night. But if more people chose not to consume factory farm animal products - the demand would go down over time and we would not breed as many anymore. It would be a slow phasing out and a transition to more sustainable food sources. > I’d rather have a harsh life than no life Please watch Earthlings[0] - the documentary about the factory farm industry and how animals live. Tell me you would want to live under those conditions. And no - those are not isolated, it's the reality for factory farm animals. Those cows, chickens and pigs in factory farms are not wild species anymore. We bred them to the point where we maximized their meat or egg production at the expense of their health, e.g. chickens grow so large they can't stand on their own legs anymore. And we have many sanctuaries now - where farm animals are being rescued and they can live to their natural end, so they would continue to exist. So if you had the choice - what would you choose for yourself: 1) Not be born 2) Be born into a system where you will suffer and lead a horrible life and at the end you will be slaughtered just because someone wants a burger. [0] https://www.nationearth.com/ https://www.nationearth.com/
hshsuzhbs 4y ago

uxcolumbo 4y ago

That's why I didn't say all kids - of course there are exceptions. And your example is not how most of us get animal meat. Kids in cities don't have a garden where they can raise their own chickens. I'm talking about the realities of factory farming and slaughterhouses - where animals lead a miserable life. And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Of course it would be a transition away from large scale animal farming to more sustainable plant based farming and maybe some small family run animal farms. It would mean removing the huge subsidies the meat and factory farm industry is getting and using those subsidies to help farmers transition to sustainable farming. The UN, scientists from the IPCC and various other organizations urge us to reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat & dairy if we want to limit global heating to 1.5C. But hey, don't look up. And what's wrong with having moral values that extend to other living beings on this planet? Killing animals and raising them in factory farms is cruel [0] - if you disagree then I'd like to hear how it's not cruel. Do you think an animal happily gives up their life so we can have a burger? Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? [0] Richard Dawkins: No Civilized Person Accepts Slavery So Why Do We Accept Animal Cruelty? | Big Think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0

zmgsabst 4y ago
> And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Right here: > Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? Where do you think the animals go, if we stop using them for food? You come across as demanding we cull our food herds, without replacing them — and then justifying it by saying that an animal wouldn’t want to be a burger… apparently saying they’d rather their species be annihilated entirely. I’d rather have a harsh life than no life — why would I assume the opposite about animals?
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  I think you misunderstood that sentence. Of course things wouldn't change over night. But if more people chose not to consume factory farm animal products - the demand would go down over time and we would not breed as many anymore. It would be a slow phasing out and a transition to more sustainable food sources. > I’d rather have a harsh life than no life Please watch Earthlings[0] - the documentary about the factory farm industry and how animals live. Tell me you would want to live under those conditions. And no - those are not isolated, it's the reality for factory farm animals. Those cows, chickens and pigs in factory farms are not wild species anymore. We bred them to the point where we maximized their meat or egg production at the expense of their health, e.g. chickens grow so large they can't stand on their own legs anymore. And we have many sanctuaries now - where farm animals are being rescued and they can live to their natural end, so they would continue to exist. So if you had the choice - what would you choose for yourself: 1) Not be born 2) Be born into a system where you will suffer and lead a horrible life and at the end you will be slaughtered just because someone wants a burger. [0] https://www.nationearth.com/ https://www.nationearth.com/

hshsuzhbs 4y ago