5 ms·

The main problem with diversity, is that most of the time it's a performance. And it's often done with bad actors, who will spend hours and hours on talk shows,

The main problem with diversity, is that most of the time it's a performance. And it's often done with bad actors, who will spend hours and hours on talk shows, describing how they are proud to be the first X to have played in this role. The result is thus disappointing. And it does not create anything of value. Because unsurprisingly, people are not paying to the the "first black elf". Nobody care. So it's just alienating the core fanbase because they are fed up seeing their favorite franchise being ruined by quotas, and racial war, especially when all other aspects are lacking (scenario, dialogues, poor yet expensive CGI, etc) I just wish most of this company get broke and we start to see smaller studio producing interesting stuff around diversity. As you can tell I have no fetish for diversity as it's a criteria I found useless in a workplace or in my entertainment. But from time to time, I would happily watch a high budget and original production about some fantasy world happening in Africa (like Game of Thrones is for England) or in Thailand or whatever with all the folklore around it. Rather than seeing divisive comment about : "Amazing, we finally have some diversity among LoR's elf, take that racist Tolkien" or "Disgusting, they put some black elf". As usual, I really feel this modern world is not for me, it's ruining most franchises one after the other, yet it's not creating any new interesting franchises.

8note 4y ago
Moreso with diversity, it's a diverse set of people playing a non-diverse set of characters. The characters are all written to be white, just with non-white people playing them. They're doing something cool by having the diverse cast, but the writing doesn't adjust to make a story that feels like it has a diverse cast
- docmars 4y ago
  This is because it's natural for people to view different races as coming from different backgrounds, especially in Medieval fantasy. It's more expected to see several mostly homogeneous nations with unique cultures and offerings to bring to the table, and in fantasy, using them to both unite together against a singular evil, and for some, ally with that evil. This makes for a more interesting story and lore; it gets people thinking: "Whoa cool, another nation with different people, I wonder what they're all about!" Whereas in this show, and many like it (Wheel of Time), all nations have been forced together to form a single uninteresting soup where few have any cultural significance or quirks whatsoever, so as to avoid offending anyone with stereotypes, which could lead to (GASP!) mild and harmless racial jesting, stupidly redefined as violence against an oppressed minority group by vocal activists who live and breathe dismantling Western/European culture.
- HeavyStorm 4y ago
  Dwarfs... Hobbits... Elves... Humans... Maiar...there's diversity. Only it's on a different axis.
- mrcheesebreeze 4y ago
  Also these people seem to not read much about the works they mess with, there are plenty of non-white factions in lotr that have less set lore about them. We can easily add in lore friendly blacks and do it in a way that makes less spoken about factions more interesting. Why do low effort tokenism when you can do something interesting and still diverse? All it takes is a bit of effort.
webmobdev 4y ago
As an indian, I find this politically fascinating. As Noam Chomsky's Manufactured Consent pointed out, the US has always used its media to influence politics and culture both in its own country and outside. It appears the US now believes that it can "mainstream" the acceptance of certain vulnerable group by showing them more on TV and movies. (I do think this will work with the next generation in a decade or so). However, the way it is being done forcefully, and in a poorly executed fashion while ignoring the backlash being generated, I fear it will only lead to "tolerance" and not their acceptance in society. And I wonder if this is deliberate too? The poor, and sometimes forced and contrived execution of an LGBT or female or a non-white character does really seem unnecessary. To me as an indian, sometimes it looks like the white man's guilt is showing when they even rewrite historical characters and insert such characters doing things that they would never have been able to do (e.g. the enjoyable but oh so historically inaccurate heroine of Miss Scarlet and the Duke - in her period, she would have probably been committed to a mental institute for the things she does in the show. Or the deliberate ignorance of "victorian" values in British society in some recent "historical" dramas, just to show some character doing things that would be really out of character for them in their period - Indeed, one wonders why such obvious white-washing of history in such a crude manner?). As a someone who is not an American but enjoys American tv, sometimes I feel that the reason such characters are deliberately shown poorly (with lousy acting or writing), is because even show makers resent being forced to include such character. Obviously this doesn't help. If a story requires an LGBT character go for it. If it requires a person of colour, great. But they do need to get a good actor and make sure the writing and the direction all add value to that character in the show without any blatant sermonising (show, not tell, at least on shows for grownups). It's not as if the American media doesn't know how to do this - there have been so many good characters, even main characters from such vulnerable group portrayed beautifully in past TV shows. (Or perhaps, I am wrong - all this has nothing to do with inclusive politics and is just a way to manufacture outrage and keep the American public distracted from the real political issues).
- SunlightEdge 4y ago
  Op here. I enjoyed your comment. This was the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate. There is a lot of nuance in this area, but is often filled with a lot of anger (from both sides) that makes discussion difficult.
shadowgovt 4y ago
The modern world's ubiquitous communication and transportation is increasingly moving people closer and closer to each other's front doorstep. As a result, everyone encounters more diverse people and opinions than they used to. This is, indeed, not something everyone enjoys. But it is the more or less inevitable direction of the future.

8note 4y ago

Moreso with diversity, it's a diverse set of people playing a non-diverse set of characters. The characters are all written to be white, just with non-white people playing them. They're doing something cool by having the diverse cast, but the writing doesn't adjust to make a story that feels like it has a diverse cast

docmars 4y ago
This is because it's natural for people to view different races as coming from different backgrounds, especially in Medieval fantasy. It's more expected to see several mostly homogeneous nations with unique cultures and offerings to bring to the table, and in fantasy, using them to both unite together against a singular evil, and for some, ally with that evil. This makes for a more interesting story and lore; it gets people thinking: "Whoa cool, another nation with different people, I wonder what they're all about!" Whereas in this show, and many like it (Wheel of Time), all nations have been forced together to form a single uninteresting soup where few have any cultural significance or quirks whatsoever, so as to avoid offending anyone with stereotypes, which could lead to (GASP!) mild and harmless racial jesting, stupidly redefined as violence against an oppressed minority group by vocal activists who live and breathe dismantling Western/European culture.
HeavyStorm 4y ago
Dwarfs... Hobbits... Elves... Humans... Maiar...there's diversity. Only it's on a different axis.
mrcheesebreeze 4y ago
Also these people seem to not read much about the works they mess with, there are plenty of non-white factions in lotr that have less set lore about them. We can easily add in lore friendly blacks and do it in a way that makes less spoken about factions more interesting. Why do low effort tokenism when you can do something interesting and still diverse? All it takes is a bit of effort.

webmobdev 4y ago

As an indian, I find this politically fascinating. As Noam Chomsky's Manufactured Consent pointed out, the US has always used its media to influence politics and culture both in its own country and outside. It appears the US now believes that it can "mainstream" the acceptance of certain vulnerable group by showing them more on TV and movies. (I do think this will work with the next generation in a decade or so). However, the way it is being done forcefully, and in a poorly executed fashion while ignoring the backlash being generated, I fear it will only lead to "tolerance" and not their acceptance in society. And I wonder if this is deliberate too? The poor, and sometimes forced and contrived execution of an LGBT or female or a non-white character does really seem unnecessary. To me as an indian, sometimes it looks like the white man's guilt is showing when they even rewrite historical characters and insert such characters doing things that they would never have been able to do (e.g. the enjoyable but oh so historically inaccurate heroine of Miss Scarlet and the Duke - in her period, she would have probably been committed to a mental institute for the things she does in the show. Or the deliberate ignorance of "victorian" values in British society in some recent "historical" dramas, just to show some character doing things that would be really out of character for them in their period - Indeed, one wonders why such obvious white-washing of history in such a crude manner?). As a someone who is not an American but enjoys American tv, sometimes I feel that the reason such characters are deliberately shown poorly (with lousy acting or writing), is because even show makers resent being forced to include such character. Obviously this doesn't help. If a story requires an LGBT character go for it. If it requires a person of colour, great. But they do need to get a good actor and make sure the writing and the direction all add value to that character in the show without any blatant sermonising (show, not tell, at least on shows for grownups). It's not as if the American media doesn't know how to do this - there have been so many good characters, even main characters from such vulnerable group portrayed beautifully in past TV shows. (Or perhaps, I am wrong - all this has nothing to do with inclusive politics and is just a way to manufacture outrage and keep the American public distracted from the real political issues).

SunlightEdge 4y ago
Op here. I enjoyed your comment. This was the kind of discussion I was hoping to generate. There is a lot of nuance in this area, but is often filled with a lot of anger (from both sides) that makes discussion difficult.

shadowgovt 4y ago

The modern world's ubiquitous communication and transportation is increasingly moving people closer and closer to each other's front doorstep. As a result, everyone encounters more diverse people and opinions than they used to. This is, indeed, not something everyone enjoys. But it is the more or less inevitable direction of the future.