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I feel for this little girl - for losing her friend. I think if more parents would explain to kids where meat comes from most would react like Indie-Rose - ano

I feel for this little girl - for losing her friend. I think if more parents would explain to kids where meat comes from most would react like Indie-Rose - another little kid[0] - who said: "I don't want to chop up animal people" And there are so many more kids realizing on their own what they are eating. They don't want to eat Peppa the pig & friends and yet we (mostly) force them to eat them. And there are so many more examples of these kids. They seem to instinctively understand what Einstein talked about in the last century [1] [2]. What do you think would happen if we show little kids the reality of slaughterhouses - they'd be traumatized for life and yet we feed them the products of those brutal and inhumane places. One day we might end this barbarism - maybe a few more hundred years - as depicted in this optimistic future [3] EDIT: Would be good to hear why you down vote this comment. --- [0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3151959/Tearful-five-year-old-girl-s-vegetarian-mother-s-partner-insists-taste-good.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3151959/Tearful-f... [1] "Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." [2] "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." [3] The Dietary Requirements of a Star Fleet Officer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS7NRtEJBcA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS7NRtEJBcA

superchroma 4y ago
I would guess because the notion of telling children hard truths is not the key issue in this event, and you're kind of taking a moment for animal rights advocacy which people can find obnoxious. Both are an important topic for discussion, for sure.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Thanks - but this is about animal rights and our culture of eating meat, is it not? If those people who took away the goat had more compassion then this little girl would still have her goat friend. The little girl and the goat had a bond and it was broken because we just view these animals as objects / property and not as sentient beings that 'are too much like us' as Carl Sagan used to say.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > is about animal rights and our culture of eating meat, is it not? One can make it about anything. These parents aren’t advocating against goats being slaughtered. I doubt any of them will stop eating meat. They’re advocating for a specific property interest.
    - uxcolumbo 4y ago
      > Property interest And that's the point. Should a sentient being be regarded as property?
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > Should a sentient being be regarded as property? If these parents were raising awareness for a pets’ right law, I’d be far more sympathetic. They aren’t. It’s also unclear what the ramifications would be if livestock someone else has bought can be poofed into a pet at the previous owner’s insistence.
        uxcolumbo 4y ago
        It was a more generic question. Should a sentient being like a goat or a pig who passes the mirror test and is regarded to have the intelligence of a 2-3 year old child… should those animals be regarded as property, be exploited, made to suffer and their life taken away against their will? Even if we humans don’t need to exploit these animals anymore for our survival? We have the technology and knowhow to feed ourselves more sustainably and without causing environmental destruction and suffering as we do now.
        choko 4y ago
        Yes. Animals are tools and can be regarded as property. I do support regulations in how animals should be raised and treated, but regarding them on the same level as humans is fallacy. I've seen your evidence and it has failed to change my mind. Especially since a vegan diet isn't suitable or healthy for everyone. If it works for you, great. Follow your heart.
nashashmi 4y ago
You premise is kids don't want to eat animals but we force them to eat it. And they don't realize what that is.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  My premise is that if we showed kids the realities of slaughterhouses and the impact that animal farming has on our biosphere and all the other externalities - I believe most would not want to support this. Imagine we had a children's book that would convey these facts in a manner kids understand more easily. And yet we hide these facts from children and we tell them to eat meat and drink milk because they need it for protein etc, even if they don't want to - happened to me and countless others (online reports). Don't you think a child would get traumatized by the sight of a cow being shot in the head and being cut open and the guts falling out - sometimes the animal is still alive and its eyes are rolling. It's a horror show. If a grown man (Mike Bisping - ex MMA fighter) couldn't last longer than 2 weeks working in a slaughterhouse because it's a madhouse - do you think children could stomach watching videos of that environment? Slaughterhouse workers suffer from PTSD - some say they had to suppress their compassion to carry out the killing.
  - nashashmi 4y ago
    This is an agenda.
    - uxcolumbo 4y ago
      I don't follow. Can you elaborate?
      - nashashmi 4y ago
        You are trying to insert your own views into the upbringing of other people's kids in order for them to be have taken the same view point as yourself. Agenda.
        4y ago
kurupt213 4y ago
Kids should know where their food comes from and that death is a natural part of life.
batch12 4y ago
I think if we showed kids from a very young age the processing of animals they likely not be traumatized for life. It'd be normal for them. I do believe that people should know where their food comes from and how it's made. I don't have any concerns with teaching kids how to hunt, farm, and harvest livestock.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  I'm not talking about hunting. Most meat consumed on this planet comes from large scale animal farms, not from going out to the woods and hunting, like our ancestors did (who needed it to survive - most of us don't anymore). I'm talking about this: https://www.nationearth.com/ https://www.nationearth.com/ - ask parents to show their kids this or just videos of factory slaughterhouses. Do you think most parents would say yes? Would they say yes to showing pictures / videos of places where workers suffer from PTSD?
zmgsabst 4y ago
You’re projecting hard. My niece happily eats the chicken she helped raise and watched be slaughtered and butchered. I also knew where meat came from as a child and that didn’t bother me. These grand moralistic pronouncements don’t seem true… and ignore that carrying them out would be the death of 35M cattle, 500M chickens, etc. A near total devastation of their species, who primarily exist as our food source. Should we stop the worst abuses of industrial farming? — yes, and that’s already happening. But spare us the grandiose speeches demanding we cull food herds as a moral imperative.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  That's why I didn't say all kids - of course there are exceptions. And your example is not how most of us get animal meat. Kids in cities don't have a garden where they can raise their own chickens. I'm talking about the realities of factory farming and slaughterhouses - where animals lead a miserable life. And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Of course it would be a transition away from large scale animal farming to more sustainable plant based farming and maybe some small family run animal farms. It would mean removing the huge subsidies the meat and factory farm industry is getting and using those subsidies to help farmers transition to sustainable farming. The UN, scientists from the IPCC and various other organizations urge us to reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat & dairy if we want to limit global heating to 1.5C. But hey, don't look up. And what's wrong with having moral values that extend to other living beings on this planet? Killing animals and raising them in factory farms is cruel [0] - if you disagree then I'd like to hear how it's not cruel. Do you think an animal happily gives up their life so we can have a burger? Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? [0] Richard Dawkins: No Civilized Person Accepts Slavery So Why Do We Accept Animal Cruelty? | Big Think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    > And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Right here: > Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? Where do you think the animals go, if we stop using them for food? You come across as demanding we cull our food herds, without replacing them — and then justifying it by saying that an animal wouldn’t want to be a burger… apparently saying they’d rather their species be annihilated entirely. I’d rather have a harsh life than no life — why would I assume the opposite about animals?
choko 4y ago
The phenomenon of children not knowing where their meat comes from is recent. For thousands of years, society was mostly agrarian. Children survived and were not traumatized. I suspect the downvotes you are seeing are due to people feeling like you are overstating your case, being somewhat dramatic, and a little off topic.

superchroma 4y ago

I would guess because the notion of telling children hard truths is not the key issue in this event, and you're kind of taking a moment for animal rights advocacy which people can find obnoxious. Both are an important topic for discussion, for sure.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
Thanks - but this is about animal rights and our culture of eating meat, is it not? If those people who took away the goat had more compassion then this little girl would still have her goat friend. The little girl and the goat had a bond and it was broken because we just view these animals as objects / property and not as sentient beings that 'are too much like us' as Carl Sagan used to say.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > is about animal rights and our culture of eating meat, is it not? One can make it about anything. These parents aren’t advocating against goats being slaughtered. I doubt any of them will stop eating meat. They’re advocating for a specific property interest.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    > Property interest And that's the point. Should a sentient being be regarded as property?
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > Should a sentient being be regarded as property? If these parents were raising awareness for a pets’ right law, I’d be far more sympathetic. They aren’t. It’s also unclear what the ramifications would be if livestock someone else has bought can be poofed into a pet at the previous owner’s insistence.
      - uxcolumbo 4y ago
        It was a more generic question. Should a sentient being like a goat or a pig who passes the mirror test and is regarded to have the intelligence of a 2-3 year old child… should those animals be regarded as property, be exploited, made to suffer and their life taken away against their will? Even if we humans don’t need to exploit these animals anymore for our survival? We have the technology and knowhow to feed ourselves more sustainably and without causing environmental destruction and suffering as we do now.
        choko 4y ago
        Yes. Animals are tools and can be regarded as property. I do support regulations in how animals should be raised and treated, but regarding them on the same level as humans is fallacy. I've seen your evidence and it has failed to change my mind. Especially since a vegan diet isn't suitable or healthy for everyone. If it works for you, great. Follow your heart.

nashashmi 4y ago

You premise is kids don't want to eat animals but we force them to eat it. And they don't realize what that is.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
My premise is that if we showed kids the realities of slaughterhouses and the impact that animal farming has on our biosphere and all the other externalities - I believe most would not want to support this. Imagine we had a children's book that would convey these facts in a manner kids understand more easily. And yet we hide these facts from children and we tell them to eat meat and drink milk because they need it for protein etc, even if they don't want to - happened to me and countless others (online reports). Don't you think a child would get traumatized by the sight of a cow being shot in the head and being cut open and the guts falling out - sometimes the animal is still alive and its eyes are rolling. It's a horror show. If a grown man (Mike Bisping - ex MMA fighter) couldn't last longer than 2 weeks working in a slaughterhouse because it's a madhouse - do you think children could stomach watching videos of that environment? Slaughterhouse workers suffer from PTSD - some say they had to suppress their compassion to carry out the killing.
- nashashmi 4y ago
  This is an agenda.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    I don't follow. Can you elaborate?
    - nashashmi 4y ago
      You are trying to insert your own views into the upbringing of other people's kids in order for them to be have taken the same view point as yourself. Agenda.
      - 4y ago

kurupt213 4y ago

Kids should know where their food comes from and that death is a natural part of life.

batch12 4y ago

I think if we showed kids from a very young age the processing of animals they likely not be traumatized for life. It'd be normal for them. I do believe that people should know where their food comes from and how it's made. I don't have any concerns with teaching kids how to hunt, farm, and harvest livestock.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
I'm not talking about hunting. Most meat consumed on this planet comes from large scale animal farms, not from going out to the woods and hunting, like our ancestors did (who needed it to survive - most of us don't anymore). I'm talking about this: https://www.nationearth.com/ https://www.nationearth.com/ - ask parents to show their kids this or just videos of factory slaughterhouses. Do you think most parents would say yes? Would they say yes to showing pictures / videos of places where workers suffer from PTSD?

zmgsabst 4y ago

You’re projecting hard. My niece happily eats the chicken she helped raise and watched be slaughtered and butchered. I also knew where meat came from as a child and that didn’t bother me. These grand moralistic pronouncements don’t seem true… and ignore that carrying them out would be the death of 35M cattle, 500M chickens, etc. A near total devastation of their species, who primarily exist as our food source. Should we stop the worst abuses of industrial farming? — yes, and that’s already happening. But spare us the grandiose speeches demanding we cull food herds as a moral imperative.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
That's why I didn't say all kids - of course there are exceptions. And your example is not how most of us get animal meat. Kids in cities don't have a garden where they can raise their own chickens. I'm talking about the realities of factory farming and slaughterhouses - where animals lead a miserable life. And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Of course it would be a transition away from large scale animal farming to more sustainable plant based farming and maybe some small family run animal farms. It would mean removing the huge subsidies the meat and factory farm industry is getting and using those subsidies to help farmers transition to sustainable farming. The UN, scientists from the IPCC and various other organizations urge us to reduce or eliminate our consumption of meat & dairy if we want to limit global heating to 1.5C. But hey, don't look up. And what's wrong with having moral values that extend to other living beings on this planet? Killing animals and raising them in factory farms is cruel [0] - if you disagree then I'd like to hear how it's not cruel. Do you think an animal happily gives up their life so we can have a burger? Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? [0] Richard Dawkins: No Civilized Person Accepts Slavery So Why Do We Accept Animal Cruelty? | Big Think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  > And where did I say we should kill all remaining farm animals? Right here: > Why kill and enslave animals if we don't need to? Where do you think the animals go, if we stop using them for food? You come across as demanding we cull our food herds, without replacing them — and then justifying it by saying that an animal wouldn’t want to be a burger… apparently saying they’d rather their species be annihilated entirely. I’d rather have a harsh life than no life — why would I assume the opposite about animals?

choko 4y ago

The phenomenon of children not knowing where their meat comes from is recent. For thousands of years, society was mostly agrarian. Children survived and were not traumatized. I suspect the downvotes you are seeing are due to people feeling like you are overstating your case, being somewhat dramatic, and a little off topic.