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First of all, if it was unclear i was being sarcastic with my response back to the OP. I took what he wrote, replaced "union" with "company" and asked if this

First of all, if it was unclear i was being sarcastic with my response back to the OP. I took what he wrote, replaced "union" with "company" and asked if this made sense too? One thing about "fairness" is it should run in both directions. The point is that there needs to be a better balance of power between both unions (which have literally bankrupt companies) and corporations (which have done really shitty things like "company towns").

Apocryphon 4y ago
Your sarcasm failed because the corporations literally did band together in anti-union activities and used their disproportionate power to attach workers. This was a case of your metaphor backfiring on your point. Unions may or may not have bankrupted companies, but did they ever engage in the same level of violence, physical intimidation, or criminal behavior as these union busting alliances?
- RHSeeger 4y ago
  > Unions may or may not have bankrupted companies, but did they ever engage in the same level of violence, physical intimidation, or criminal behavior as these union busting alliances? I like unions, but... yes? Pretending that they haven't is ridiculous. There's a reason that people are complaining that police officers can act (nearly) as horrible/brutal as they want to and fact (close to) no consequences. That reason is their union. There's also video of union members physically and mentally attacking people for crossing picket lines, etc. When people get power, the bad eggs start causing problems for everyone else. And they also tend to gain power, so wind up making decisions for "the organization". This is true of both companies _and_ unions.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Does that behavior happen with other unions, such as teachers unions?
    - RHSeeger 4y ago
      I don't know much about teachers unions. I know there are some (debateable) bad aspects of it, such as that they lean very heavily towards making it difficult to fire bad teachers that have seniority. But I've seen a number of good things about it too. Honestly, it's hard for a union of public workers to do a very good job, because (being critical workers), they have less leverage when it comes to exercising their power. The Teamsters in another union that has been mired in controversy due to their behavior.
    - kennend3 4y ago
      We use to have a review panel where techers would discipline other teachers. They got to the point they were simply moving bad teachers around from school to school so our government had to pass laws to rebuild the entire corrupt process. https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s02007 https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s02007 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-june-7-2018-1.4695439/union-s-defence-of-elizabeth-wettlaufer-was-grossly-disappointing-says-employment-lawyer-1.4695440 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-june-7-2... This nurse murdered a number of patients. her union protected her and hid her misconduct. Instead of being fired, back door deals were made to transfer her from hospital to hospital. it was easier, firing her would create union problems and so the hospitals agreed to "go with the flow" and allow her to continue killing.
  - kennend3 4y ago
    This is EXACTLY why i am not fond of unions.. the police. Here (Ontario, Canada) we have dozens and dozens of police collecting full salary for YEARS pending criminal trials. Cant fire them, cant do anything about it. Instead of "defund the police" we need a way to reduce the police union power and FIRE bad cops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Wettlaufer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Wettlaufer She killed many people before finally turning herself in. Her union PROTECTED her, hid her mistakes, etc. Derek Chauvin had like 6 misconduct write-ups. Elizabeth had over 200
- kennend3 4y ago
  > Unions may or may not have bankrupted companies there is no "may or may not".. Unions DID bankrupt several companies. It is odd you wrote what you did because how many times has the US government ever have to intervene in a corporation due to mob involvement? "FEDS AGREE TO REDUCE OVERSIGHT OF ONCE-MOB-CORRUPTED TEAMSTERS UNION" the Department of Justice has a nice site on unions and organized crime https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ocgs/infiltrated-labor-unions https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ocgs/infiltrated-labor-unio... As i said, there is a line between "too powerful unions" and "too powerful companies". You tell us, how much violence did teamsters and their MOB inflict? where's mr Hoffa?
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    > It is odd you wrote what you did because how many times has the US government ever have to intervene in a corporation due to mob involvement? https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-businesses-supposedly-controlled-by-the-mafia.htm https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-businesses-supposedly-co... https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/65365/7-businesses-you-probably-didnt-know-were-controlled-mob https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/65365/7-businesses-you-p... https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/behind-real-estates-tangled-mob-ties/ https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/behind-real-estates-...

Apocryphon 4y ago

Your sarcasm failed because the corporations literally did band together in anti-union activities and used their disproportionate power to attach workers. This was a case of your metaphor backfiring on your point. Unions may or may not have bankrupted companies, but did they ever engage in the same level of violence, physical intimidation, or criminal behavior as these union busting alliances?

RHSeeger 4y ago
> Unions may or may not have bankrupted companies, but did they ever engage in the same level of violence, physical intimidation, or criminal behavior as these union busting alliances? I like unions, but... yes? Pretending that they haven't is ridiculous. There's a reason that people are complaining that police officers can act (nearly) as horrible/brutal as they want to and fact (close to) no consequences. That reason is their union. There's also video of union members physically and mentally attacking people for crossing picket lines, etc. When people get power, the bad eggs start causing problems for everyone else. And they also tend to gain power, so wind up making decisions for "the organization". This is true of both companies _and_ unions.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Does that behavior happen with other unions, such as teachers unions?
  - RHSeeger 4y ago
    I don't know much about teachers unions. I know there are some (debateable) bad aspects of it, such as that they lean very heavily towards making it difficult to fire bad teachers that have seniority. But I've seen a number of good things about it too. Honestly, it's hard for a union of public workers to do a very good job, because (being critical workers), they have less leverage when it comes to exercising their power. The Teamsters in another union that has been mired in controversy due to their behavior.
  - kennend3 4y ago
    We use to have a review panel where techers would discipline other teachers. They got to the point they were simply moving bad teachers around from school to school so our government had to pass laws to rebuild the entire corrupt process. https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s02007 https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s02007 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-june-7-2018-1.4695439/union-s-defence-of-elizabeth-wettlaufer-was-grossly-disappointing-says-employment-lawyer-1.4695440 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-june-7-2... This nurse murdered a number of patients. her union protected her and hid her misconduct. Instead of being fired, back door deals were made to transfer her from hospital to hospital. it was easier, firing her would create union problems and so the hospitals agreed to "go with the flow" and allow her to continue killing.
- kennend3 4y ago
  This is EXACTLY why i am not fond of unions.. the police. Here (Ontario, Canada) we have dozens and dozens of police collecting full salary for YEARS pending criminal trials. Cant fire them, cant do anything about it. Instead of "defund the police" we need a way to reduce the police union power and FIRE bad cops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Wettlaufer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Wettlaufer She killed many people before finally turning herself in. Her union PROTECTED her, hid her mistakes, etc. Derek Chauvin had like 6 misconduct write-ups. Elizabeth had over 200
kennend3 4y ago
> Unions may or may not have bankrupted companies there is no "may or may not".. Unions DID bankrupt several companies. It is odd you wrote what you did because how many times has the US government ever have to intervene in a corporation due to mob involvement? "FEDS AGREE TO REDUCE OVERSIGHT OF ONCE-MOB-CORRUPTED TEAMSTERS UNION" the Department of Justice has a nice site on unions and organized crime https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ocgs/infiltrated-labor-unions https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ocgs/infiltrated-labor-unio... As i said, there is a line between "too powerful unions" and "too powerful companies". You tell us, how much violence did teamsters and their MOB inflict? where's mr Hoffa?
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  > It is odd you wrote what you did because how many times has the US government ever have to intervene in a corporation due to mob involvement? https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-businesses-supposedly-controlled-by-the-mafia.htm https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-businesses-supposedly-co... https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/65365/7-businesses-you-probably-didnt-know-were-controlled-mob https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/65365/7-businesses-you-p... https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/behind-real-estates-tangled-mob-ties/ https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/behind-real-estates-...