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A related thought. Hydrogen fueling 1 spaceship (at a restricted access, highly maintained area) at a specific time regularly presents problems, but Toyota (an
by smileysteve 4y ago
A related thought.
Hydrogen fueling 1 spaceship (at a restricted access, highly maintained area) at a specific time regularly presents problems, but Toyota (and others) bet on gas stations operated by consumers across the world maintaining a hydrogen refueling economy for cars.
Gas stations regularly can't maintain windshield squeegees, paper towels, or trash cans, but they were going to replace seals and keep them clean regularly.
- KerrAvon 4y agoI don’t think the paper towels are the same problem as the fueling infrastructure itself. But I was curious and I found this proposal: https://h2tools.org/sites/default/files/App2_Consolidated_Safety_Plans.pdf https://h2tools.org/sites/default/files/App2_Consolidated_Sa... Tbh, it didn’t fill me with as much confidence as I’d have liked. But I suspect it’s moot: the future is clearly battery-electric with renewable-based generation. Hydrogen missed the window of opportunity, if there ever was one.
- alamortsubite 4y agoThat seems more than a little disingenuous, given windshield squeegees, paper towels, and trash cans don't explode if not regularly maintained.
- smileysteve 4y agorotting rubber fuel hoses and rusted couplers are likely a better example. from an electric standpoint, a truck knocked over a charging station and it hasn't been repaired in 2 months at my neighborhood Park. (Though, I feel positive it has had the breaker turned off)
- mjhay 4y agoHydrogen infrastructure/cars/etc is unworkable for a lot of reasons, but safety-wise its no more dangerous than natural gas or propane - the later of which tons of gas stations sell.
- sroussey 4y agoI’m reminded of this paragraph in the following article: When the Lockheed team stored hundreds of gallons of liquid hydrogen at the Skunk Works a visiting scientist warned them "My God … you're going to blow up Burbank." Later, they were reminded of this prophecy when a fire broke out and nearly caused a massive explosion that could have demolished the top-secret facility, the neighbouring airport and Burbank itself. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220316-the-epic-attempts-to-power-planes-with-hydrogen https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220316-the-epic-attempt...
- Keyframe 4y agoWouldn't hydrogen tanks in cars have an absurd pressure in them? That in itself would make it far more dangerous.
- smileysteve 4y agoAt compressed levels, this is often solved with a burst disc directing pressure gases in a direction. At liquified levels it's harder to control (and cryo).
- smileysteve 4y agoIs propane refill self serve in the UK? In most of the US, we have not adopted lpg for vehicles, and grill tanks are now exchanged (because it is easier than having a technician on site?). In the 90s there were some lng vehicle refill at home for pilot programs.
- Laremere 4y agoNot comparable. This is fueling tons of cryogenic propellant using systems which haven't been used many times end to end. Hydrogen in cars is compressed gas, and operations happen at a much higher frequency. A lot easier to work out the kinks before going for the real deal (rocket launch vs consumer car refueling). No comment on hydrogen as a car fuel overall, but compressed hydrogen and liquid hydrogen have completely different in handling requirements.
- smileysteve 4y agoThanks for following up, I assumed stations would get large volume liquid fuel; but it makes sense that transfer can me safer with in gas form for consumers.