4 ms·

I have found the recent trend of lets "simplify" everything cause Apple did it at times annoying. Take for example the Gnome 3 shell. Most Linux users want "opt

by agentgt 15y ago

I have found the recent trend of lets "simplify" everything cause Apple did it at times annoying. Take for example the Gnome 3 shell. Most Linux users want "options" and don't mind complexity otherwise they would buy a Mac. I find it ironic that Apple has prided itself with "Think Different" and break away from big brother (for those that remember the "1984" commercial) when apparently Apple prefers homogeneity instead of uniqueness.

dextorious 15y ago
"""Most Linux users want "options" and don't mind complexity otherwise they would buy a Mac.""" The problem is that they do buy a Mac. In droves. Also Gnome wasn't targeting "most Linux users", but those that valued a simple (Mac like if you want) UI. And also "non Linux users". """I find it ironic that Apple has prided itself with "Think Different" and break away from big brother (for those that remember the "1984" commercial) when apparently Apple prefers homogeneity instead of uniqueness.""" Ironic how? Who said homogeneity contradicts uniqueness? You can offer stuff unique --compared to what others sell--, and have it be homogeneous in your product line, at the same time. The difference lies in how you go about creating those products, not in that they differ between themselves. I.e true difference is in the iPhone vs a Nokia phone, not in the 200 versions of Nokia phones available.
berntb 15y ago
>>Most Linux users want "options" and don't mind complexity otherwise they would buy a Mac. We are existing Gnome users. We want the features we have built work habits around. I went KDE rather than Unity and am quite happy so far. If I started to use an Ubuntu system now, I'd probably like Unity. Apple plans their users' learning curve/experience, so we find things out after a while. Same thing as what [edit: Ubuntu tries to do with Unity], I'd guess.
DannoHung 15y ago
> I find it ironic that Apple has prided itself with "Think Different" and break away from big brother (for those that remember the "1984" commercial) when apparently Apple prefers homogeneity instead of uniqueness. The 1984 commercial wasn't intended to state that every individual computer should be different, but that you should be able to do different things with your computer than just the business applications that were prevalent.
- siglesias 15y ago
  It's a little more nuanced than that. The simplicity enabled many more people to express themselves in contexts other than spreadsheets. The Macintosh, for example, ushered in the age of desktop publishing, which was a boon to writers and academics. Practically speaking, I don't see that as having changed in Apple. They still see the gateway to creativity and self expression being ease of use, as opposed to some other values such as hardware compatibility or UI customizability.
- agentgt 15y ago
  Actually I wasn't really focusing on their software but their hardware (my wife wants the iPhone in gray to match her coach pocketbook). You can actually customize Mac OSX far more than you can customize gnome shell. I was merely making fun of Apple's crazy licensing for the App Store, their lack of respecting privacy, the fervent fanatic love for them, and that a majority of the users that use Apple products are of a particular demographic all of which to me is very very 1984ish. Just ask Bret Victor: http://worrydream.com/#!/Apple http://worrydream.com/#!/Apple Hey I will say that the MacBook Air kicks ass!
Duff 15y ago
"Simple" means different things to different people. Apple aims their products at individual people. "Think Different" means "Don't think about your computer". So write your book, keep your spreadsheets, whatever. The user doesn't care about the computer. Microsoft, in contrast, wants to keep the CIO happy. So you have robust single sign on, reliable and modular patching capability and backwards compatibility. IT cares about the computer. Open source projects are all over the map. In general, current Linux users are enthusiasts. They WANT to customize Emacs macros and tweak their operating environment. The user cares deeply about the computer, and gets some amount of joy out of futzing with it.
- agentgt 15y ago
  The apple comment was merely tangential observation. My concern is people using "Simple" as an excuse to not deliver. Just like we use different dialogue for different audiences we build software for particular audience. Gnome Shell is not Linux Users. Your interpretation of "Think Different" is nice but I don't think its what Apple was thinking. In fact it seems Think Different was stated as "there are other alternatives to the PC". Later on Apple reused the phrase to indicate that they are creative paradigm shifters and in the same league of some one who topples a regime when in a reality they are now the regime/status quo.
- sampsonjs 15y ago
  I sure as hell care about backwards compatability, along with 93% of the desktop market.
ams6110 15y ago
But all else being equal wouldn't you prefer "simple" options to complex if in the end they achieved the same thing? Simplicity is not necessary limiting yourself to only simple results, it is being able to do what the user wants in a clean, elegant, intuitive way.

by agentgt 15y ago

dextorious 15y ago

"""Most Linux users want "options" and don't mind complexity otherwise they would buy a Mac.""" The problem is that they do buy a Mac. In droves. Also Gnome wasn't targeting "most Linux users", but those that valued a simple (Mac like if you want) UI. And also "non Linux users". """I find it ironic that Apple has prided itself with "Think Different" and break away from big brother (for those that remember the "1984" commercial) when apparently Apple prefers homogeneity instead of uniqueness.""" Ironic how? Who said homogeneity contradicts uniqueness? You can offer stuff unique --compared to what others sell--, and have it be homogeneous in your product line, at the same time. The difference lies in how you go about creating those products, not in that they differ between themselves. I.e true difference is in the iPhone vs a Nokia phone, not in the 200 versions of Nokia phones available.

berntb 15y ago

>>Most Linux users want "options" and don't mind complexity otherwise they would buy a Mac. We are existing Gnome users. We want the features we have built work habits around. I went KDE rather than Unity and am quite happy so far. If I started to use an Ubuntu system now, I'd probably like Unity. Apple plans their users' learning curve/experience, so we find things out after a while. Same thing as what [edit: Ubuntu tries to do with Unity], I'd guess.

DannoHung 15y ago

> I find it ironic that Apple has prided itself with "Think Different" and break away from big brother (for those that remember the "1984" commercial) when apparently Apple prefers homogeneity instead of uniqueness. The 1984 commercial wasn't intended to state that every individual computer should be different, but that you should be able to do different things with your computer than just the business applications that were prevalent.

siglesias 15y ago
It's a little more nuanced than that. The simplicity enabled many more people to express themselves in contexts other than spreadsheets. The Macintosh, for example, ushered in the age of desktop publishing, which was a boon to writers and academics. Practically speaking, I don't see that as having changed in Apple. They still see the gateway to creativity and self expression being ease of use, as opposed to some other values such as hardware compatibility or UI customizability.
agentgt 15y ago
Actually I wasn't really focusing on their software but their hardware (my wife wants the iPhone in gray to match her coach pocketbook). You can actually customize Mac OSX far more than you can customize gnome shell. I was merely making fun of Apple's crazy licensing for the App Store, their lack of respecting privacy, the fervent fanatic love for them, and that a majority of the users that use Apple products are of a particular demographic all of which to me is very very 1984ish. Just ask Bret Victor: http://worrydream.com/#!/Apple http://worrydream.com/#!/Apple Hey I will say that the MacBook Air kicks ass!

Duff 15y ago

"Simple" means different things to different people. Apple aims their products at individual people. "Think Different" means "Don't think about your computer". So write your book, keep your spreadsheets, whatever. The user doesn't care about the computer. Microsoft, in contrast, wants to keep the CIO happy. So you have robust single sign on, reliable and modular patching capability and backwards compatibility. IT cares about the computer. Open source projects are all over the map. In general, current Linux users are enthusiasts. They WANT to customize Emacs macros and tweak their operating environment. The user cares deeply about the computer, and gets some amount of joy out of futzing with it.

agentgt 15y ago
The apple comment was merely tangential observation. My concern is people using "Simple" as an excuse to not deliver. Just like we use different dialogue for different audiences we build software for particular audience. Gnome Shell is not Linux Users. Your interpretation of "Think Different" is nice but I don't think its what Apple was thinking. In fact it seems Think Different was stated as "there are other alternatives to the PC". Later on Apple reused the phrase to indicate that they are creative paradigm shifters and in the same league of some one who topples a regime when in a reality they are now the regime/status quo.
sampsonjs 15y ago
I sure as hell care about backwards compatability, along with 93% of the desktop market.

ams6110 15y ago

But all else being equal wouldn't you prefer "simple" options to complex if in the end they achieved the same thing? Simplicity is not necessary limiting yourself to only simple results, it is being able to do what the user wants in a clean, elegant, intuitive way.