5 ms·

I never understood this memo. All they had to do was to switch to MeeGo. There was no burning platform. Hardware was great and software was great, but needed a

by nextos 4y ago

I never understood this memo. All they had to do was to switch to MeeGo. There was no burning platform. Hardware was great and software was great, but needed a bit more polish. MeeGo was more advanced than iOS in many ways at the time of this memo, and Maemo had been released way before the iPhone. The 770 was released in late 2005 and it was totally futuristic. However, Elop had no interest in going this route. When MeeGo was released they dumped the project publicly shortly afterwards and then N9 was sold with no advertising. Despite this, it had a phenomenal demand.

trelane 4y ago
> I never understood this memo I totally understood it as soon as it was leaked. MicroSoft exec joined a phone company as a CEO back when MS was trying to convince manufacturers to adopt Windows Phone. Double bonus: they could kill and incipient Linux competitor in one stroke. If you've read the Halloween Documents or docs from the Comes case, it's quite clear: classic "love them to death."
- belltaco 4y ago
  >MicroSoft exec joined a phone company as a CEO One does not just "join" the biggest company in a foreign country as CEO. The board decided to hire him after evaluating all options. The board's chairman was this guy who was CEO of Nokia for 14 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorma_Ollila https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorma_Ollila Why would he allow Elop to be hired unless he thought it was in the best interest of Nokia to align with Microsoft? Not to mention the board could've fired Elop anytime if they thought he was prioritizing MS's interests over Nokia's.
  - trelane 4y ago
    Technically correct, but this doesn't contradict what I said.
    - karmakurtisaani 4y ago
      An interesting point is that Nokia managed to sell its phone business to MS for a good amount. It was a sinking ship and MS phones never really took off, so who stooged whom is a good question.
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        I mean, given the potential the price wasn't that amazing. And had they manged to continue to finance MeGoo development with their phone line that could have also result in sale of tablets, laptops and potentially other devices. Even if Nokia market share would have dropped to less then 10%, that would still have been profitable business for them, and would have made them a major player. Going from being the dominate player in a major growing market to getting a few billion for it, is not really a success.
jarkkom 4y ago
N9 was not "proper" MeeGo, internally it was still mostly Maemo Harmattan, followup to N900, though they had few canceled hardware projects between N9 and N900. MeeGo was suppposed to be co-developed with Intel, but it was never going to go anywhere, because neither Nokia or Intel had no idea what they were doing. Nokia wasn't built to be a software company and Intel has given up on x86 in phones. Only reason why N9 ever was released is because they simply brutally cut down the scope of the project, e.g. dropping Qualcomm-based variant for US/CDMA markets (that one was repurposed to be their first Windows Phone).
- nextos 4y ago
  I know, but despite being a weird hybrid between Maemo and MeeGo, it was really capable. I used a N9 as my daily driver for 7 years. The card-based UI was incredibly elegant and easy to use with one hand. I prefer it to current iOS or Android. Besides, gestures blended really well with the curved screen edges. It had a great dark mode which also blended well with the AMOLED screen. Offline GPS navigation was a pleasure to use, and unmatched till date. It had a terminal, which let me SSH anywhere to do quick jobs. I handled lots of tasks this way. For example, I used a remote Mutt instance running on my workstation to read email. The terminal was a real terminal running on the N9. For example, ifconfig could work on all network devices, including the mobile radio. Messaging was highly integrated. Different services (e.g. XMPP, Skype, etc) were just addons. All contact management, chat and calls were performed from the same application irrespective of the protocol used to handle transport. And lastly, it was an open device. You could install anything you wanted. It was truly Linux on your pocket.
  - jayelbe 4y ago
    I bought an N9 and had a very similar experience, and still look back on it warmly. It was an absolute joy to use, and I think the sleekest and most pleasant UX I've ever used. Elop really robbed Nokia of what could have been an incredible product.
    - nextos 4y ago
      Have you tried SailfishOS? After some initial difficulties the project seems to be getting quite nice and the UX is heavily inspired by the N9. Same developers actually.
zxspectrum1982 4y ago
Maemo and MeeGo were sandbagged from the beginning because of Gnome and Gtk+, which were simply not fit for the job. IMHO what Nokia should have done was release Qtopia phones from day 1, as an alternative to Symbian, and prepare the migration from Symbian to Qtopia after that. But they did it in reverse: first Symbian, then Symbian to whatever will be new (Maemo, MeeGo, who cares: something new to be developed, so a disadvantage of years), etc. It was stupid.
- mlajtos 4y ago
  N9 (and N950) were Qt-based, not Gtk.
  - zxspectrum1982 4y ago
    Glib, Gtk+ and various Gnome components were still running in Maemo and MeeGo. N9 was released in 2011, by that time Nokia was already dead. Trolltech was acquired in 2008. Nokia could have have a modern alternative to iOS and Android from day 1 but they made the terrible mistake of reinventing the wheel and trusting Gnome.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      Can you send some links of what you are talking about? And what the problems were with gnome? In 2009, the N900 was based on GTK and was a solid base to build on.
      - zxspectrum1982 4y ago
        Gnome and Gtk+ were not fit for phones: not prepared for small screen sizes, lack of adequate widgets, slow, difficult to develop for (types in Gtk+ were and still are a joke), etc. And first and foremost there was the attitude of those Gnome developers: entitled, reinventing the wheel all the time, arguing stupid arguments on purity... To this day, Gnome and Gtk+ are not fit or mobile (or Windows or Mac) yet.
etempleton 4y ago
Similarly it seemed obvious early on, to me, that RIM should switch blackberry to Android with some customization aand port some apps over. They could still be a major player if they had done so. Instead they doubled down and buried their heads in the sand.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  RIM was far smaller then Nokia. Nokia actually had resources and scale to make an Android/IOS competitor.
stereoradonc 4y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x057oh0x5p8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x057oh0x5p8 Blast from the past!

by nextos 4y ago

trelane 4y ago

> I never understood this memo I totally understood it as soon as it was leaked. MicroSoft exec joined a phone company as a CEO back when MS was trying to convince manufacturers to adopt Windows Phone. Double bonus: they could kill and incipient Linux competitor in one stroke. If you've read the Halloween Documents or docs from the Comes case, it's quite clear: classic "love them to death."

belltaco 4y ago
>MicroSoft exec joined a phone company as a CEO One does not just "join" the biggest company in a foreign country as CEO. The board decided to hire him after evaluating all options. The board's chairman was this guy who was CEO of Nokia for 14 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorma_Ollila https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorma_Ollila Why would he allow Elop to be hired unless he thought it was in the best interest of Nokia to align with Microsoft? Not to mention the board could've fired Elop anytime if they thought he was prioritizing MS's interests over Nokia's.
- trelane 4y ago
  Technically correct, but this doesn't contradict what I said.
  - karmakurtisaani 4y ago
    An interesting point is that Nokia managed to sell its phone business to MS for a good amount. It was a sinking ship and MS phones never really took off, so who stooged whom is a good question.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      I mean, given the potential the price wasn't that amazing. And had they manged to continue to finance MeGoo development with their phone line that could have also result in sale of tablets, laptops and potentially other devices. Even if Nokia market share would have dropped to less then 10%, that would still have been profitable business for them, and would have made them a major player. Going from being the dominate player in a major growing market to getting a few billion for it, is not really a success.

jarkkom 4y ago

N9 was not "proper" MeeGo, internally it was still mostly Maemo Harmattan, followup to N900, though they had few canceled hardware projects between N9 and N900. MeeGo was suppposed to be co-developed with Intel, but it was never going to go anywhere, because neither Nokia or Intel had no idea what they were doing. Nokia wasn't built to be a software company and Intel has given up on x86 in phones. Only reason why N9 ever was released is because they simply brutally cut down the scope of the project, e.g. dropping Qualcomm-based variant for US/CDMA markets (that one was repurposed to be their first Windows Phone).

nextos 4y ago
I know, but despite being a weird hybrid between Maemo and MeeGo, it was really capable. I used a N9 as my daily driver for 7 years. The card-based UI was incredibly elegant and easy to use with one hand. I prefer it to current iOS or Android. Besides, gestures blended really well with the curved screen edges. It had a great dark mode which also blended well with the AMOLED screen. Offline GPS navigation was a pleasure to use, and unmatched till date. It had a terminal, which let me SSH anywhere to do quick jobs. I handled lots of tasks this way. For example, I used a remote Mutt instance running on my workstation to read email. The terminal was a real terminal running on the N9. For example, ifconfig could work on all network devices, including the mobile radio. Messaging was highly integrated. Different services (e.g. XMPP, Skype, etc) were just addons. All contact management, chat and calls were performed from the same application irrespective of the protocol used to handle transport. And lastly, it was an open device. You could install anything you wanted. It was truly Linux on your pocket.
- jayelbe 4y ago
  I bought an N9 and had a very similar experience, and still look back on it warmly. It was an absolute joy to use, and I think the sleekest and most pleasant UX I've ever used. Elop really robbed Nokia of what could have been an incredible product.
  - nextos 4y ago
    Have you tried SailfishOS? After some initial difficulties the project seems to be getting quite nice and the UX is heavily inspired by the N9. Same developers actually.

zxspectrum1982 4y ago

Maemo and MeeGo were sandbagged from the beginning because of Gnome and Gtk+, which were simply not fit for the job. IMHO what Nokia should have done was release Qtopia phones from day 1, as an alternative to Symbian, and prepare the migration from Symbian to Qtopia after that. But they did it in reverse: first Symbian, then Symbian to whatever will be new (Maemo, MeeGo, who cares: something new to be developed, so a disadvantage of years), etc. It was stupid.

mlajtos 4y ago
N9 (and N950) were Qt-based, not Gtk.
- zxspectrum1982 4y ago
  Glib, Gtk+ and various Gnome components were still running in Maemo and MeeGo. N9 was released in 2011, by that time Nokia was already dead. Trolltech was acquired in 2008. Nokia could have have a modern alternative to iOS and Android from day 1 but they made the terrible mistake of reinventing the wheel and trusting Gnome.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Can you send some links of what you are talking about? And what the problems were with gnome? In 2009, the N900 was based on GTK and was a solid base to build on.
    - zxspectrum1982 4y ago
      Gnome and Gtk+ were not fit for phones: not prepared for small screen sizes, lack of adequate widgets, slow, difficult to develop for (types in Gtk+ were and still are a joke), etc. And first and foremost there was the attitude of those Gnome developers: entitled, reinventing the wheel all the time, arguing stupid arguments on purity... To this day, Gnome and Gtk+ are not fit or mobile (or Windows or Mac) yet.

etempleton 4y ago

Similarly it seemed obvious early on, to me, that RIM should switch blackberry to Android with some customization aand port some apps over. They could still be a major player if they had done so. Instead they doubled down and buried their heads in the sand.

panick21_ 4y ago
RIM was far smaller then Nokia. Nokia actually had resources and scale to make an Android/IOS competitor.

stereoradonc 4y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x057oh0x5p8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x057oh0x5p8 Blast from the past!