4 ms·

> she's a fairy, not a human .. what does her skin have to do with the time period or place in which she appeared? I mean, why can't we have a viking Black Pan

> she's a fairy, not a human .. what does her skin have to do with the time period or place in which she appeared? I mean, why can't we have a viking Black Panther and put Wakanda near Iceland? > The real problem is getting upset over the skin color of the actors and actresses playing fairies No one is upset for that, I, as Italian, am upset that some writer thinks that Collodi's story needed to be changed in ways that add nothing to it and also betray what he clearly wrote with his own hands. The pale white skin is a well known proxy for ethereal/angelic beings, they are not white people, they are otherworldly magical creatures, made like that. There were a lot more places where they could have added diversity, they decided to go for the most obviously controversial one.

skywhopper 4y ago
The race and location of Black Panther and Wakanda are integral parts of their story and character. Not the case with the blue fairy. Definitely not the case with elves in a fantasy world.
- GameOfFrowns 4y ago
  I hate to break it to you but Black Panther IS a fantasy story set in a fantasy world. The reason why black people would lose their minds if they would have Black Panther played by a white actor is that escapist superhero fiction has become cultural identity and the superheroes are role models. Therefore replacing a central element by their oppsite, is destroying said cultural identity. Now ask yourself why it appears to be so important to Hollywood to replace white roles with black and queer actors: Why does Arielle need to be black? Why Spiderman? Why James Bond? Why Captain America? Why Roland Deschain from Dark Tower?
oblio 4y ago
> The pale white skin is a well known proxy for ethereal/angelic beings In European and European derived culture...
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Chinese seem to be quite a fans too of white jade like skinned beauties...
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  Of course they did. But Disney is not making culture, they are making entertainment for making money. Tolkien is culture, Amazon's rings of power is not. EDIT: sorry, misread your comment, no, not only in European cultures, it's consistent across the cultures throughout history. White is the light, first men loved light and hated dark, in darkness lure grave dangers. For example in African mythologies fairies are white too, pearl white to be precise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumboes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumboes
  - oblio 4y ago
    > Tolkien is culture, Amazon's rings of power is not. Funny. Culture is almost everything. If we like it or not, if it's high or low culture, that's a huge discussion. But for sure the TV series is culture. * * * Cool link! True, the association with light is strong, universally. Actually, there was also the social class factor in any culture where tanning is highly visible: aristocrats vs everyone else, who had to work outside. No tan = upper class.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > Funny. Culture is almost everything. If we like it or not, if it's high or low culture Fair enough, point taken. I should have phrased it better. Let's put it this way: Tolkien was an intellectual and a Linguistic Professor, his works have cultural relevance, he was trying to write the new British mythology from the POV of a scholar, he wasn't thinking about writing a best seller to get rich. Conversely, I love the Terminator, but Terminator has no cultural relevance, it is popular culture or pop culture, it lives among us, yes, but the reason why it exists is entertaining people that go to the movies.
- samatman 4y ago
  Yes. An Italian was talking about an Italian story. They're Europeans. What did you intend this statement to contribute?
ubercore 4y ago
I want the best actor for a role, not one with the right skin color. You can hedge around the skincolor issue all you want, but that's the basis for your complaint.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  metoo I don't know why this fixation with the colour of the skin. I was merely pointing out that they changed a character, one that was very distinctly described, that obviously would be at the center of flamed debates and cause uproar. My understanding is that the more people talk about the movie, the less Disney need to spend in marketing it. Of course best actor for the role, but the studio never put it that way, so they are to blame IMO. Also, I mean, the blue fairy is called blue (it's actually turquoise in Italian) because she has long turquoise hair. The new fairy is bald. Kinda provocative, does it make for a more compelling story or is it for attention grab? We'll see when the movie comes out.
- samatman 4y ago
  Colorblind casting is the right approach to theatre, I firmly agree with this. The world might not be ready for Raisin in the Sun to be translated to Vietnamese and performed entirely by Vietnamese people, I say go for it. This works so well because theatre is a practice. Any play, even if it's performed once by one company (surely the mode for plays) is of the ages. Merry is black in your stage adaptation of the Fellowship, you say? Of course he is, everyone knew Isaac was going to get that role, he's a natural for it. Cinema is a product, not a practice or a process. Like it or not, it makes a single, definitive statement about a story. It's fair to dislike it when those choices differ dramatically from those made by the author, including in matters of appearance. If you think rabid fans won't be put off by 'trivial' things like an eye color mismatch, think again. You singling out skin color is your special pleading, reflecting your interests. I reject it. It is one of many aspects of casting in film which differs from the stage, for good reason.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    The problem is that casting is explicitly not colorblind. Nobody would complain if a Nigerian studio did a black-only version of LotR because (presumably) they have more black actors than white. It's the intentional woke fuckery, just so the studio can talk about racist manbabies or whatever, that is toxic. They're trying to start this very review-brigading as an excuse for however bad the show turns out. If it tanks they blame the ratings, not the material.
wizofaus 4y ago
Can't reply to the post below but where you say "I want to see black people stories, not just black people participating in white people stories where they are not originally mentioned." - I don't personally care if a movie reinterpretation casts a bald black actor (of either sex) for a character that's orginally a blue-haired pale-skinned fairy, but I definitely agree with this statement. And I wouldn't personally have an issue with using obviously caucasian actors in such a story, even if the original authors would have naturally assumed all the characters were black. Unless the character's racial background is important to the story itself (12 years a slave etc.) or the movie is aiming for historical accuracy, I'm all for having an open slather approach to colour-blind casting.
- didibus 4y ago
  > I want to see black people stories, not just black people participating in white people stories where they are not originally mentioned Isn't part of the problem that there are no such stories for those who were stolen from their culture and made to work by force, kept uneducated on purpose, and weren't given the opportunity to build stories of their own? A lot of Afro American don't speak their original language anymore, they don't know the folklore, the religions, the customs, might not even know where they came from, it's all been forgotten and erased, they're raised American now. I feel this is where inclusivity matters, if you're raised American, but aren't, and all movies and stories exclude you, it just reminds you that you're still treated differently. I'm definitely not very educated on Afro American stories, so maybe I'm wrong here, I just thought this is possible, it can be easy for colonized nations and enslaved people to lose their culture as they are forcefully assimilated, so decades later of this it's hard for them to make movies about what maybe is forgotten even to them.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Even if you restrict "black" to mean African Americans, that subculture has existed in its own right quite long enough for new stories to have been formed surely? The wikipedia article on African American literature would certainly suggest there's plenty to choose from.

skywhopper 4y ago

The race and location of Black Panther and Wakanda are integral parts of their story and character. Not the case with the blue fairy. Definitely not the case with elves in a fantasy world.

GameOfFrowns 4y ago
I hate to break it to you but Black Panther IS a fantasy story set in a fantasy world. The reason why black people would lose their minds if they would have Black Panther played by a white actor is that escapist superhero fiction has become cultural identity and the superheroes are role models. Therefore replacing a central element by their oppsite, is destroying said cultural identity. Now ask yourself why it appears to be so important to Hollywood to replace white roles with black and queer actors: Why does Arielle need to be black? Why Spiderman? Why James Bond? Why Captain America? Why Roland Deschain from Dark Tower?

oblio 4y ago

> The pale white skin is a well known proxy for ethereal/angelic beings In European and European derived culture...

Ekaros 4y ago
Chinese seem to be quite a fans too of white jade like skinned beauties...
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
Of course they did. But Disney is not making culture, they are making entertainment for making money. Tolkien is culture, Amazon's rings of power is not. EDIT: sorry, misread your comment, no, not only in European cultures, it's consistent across the cultures throughout history. White is the light, first men loved light and hated dark, in darkness lure grave dangers. For example in African mythologies fairies are white too, pearl white to be precise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumboes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumboes
- oblio 4y ago
  > Tolkien is culture, Amazon's rings of power is not. Funny. Culture is almost everything. If we like it or not, if it's high or low culture, that's a huge discussion. But for sure the TV series is culture. * * * Cool link! True, the association with light is strong, universally. Actually, there was also the social class factor in any culture where tanning is highly visible: aristocrats vs everyone else, who had to work outside. No tan = upper class.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > Funny. Culture is almost everything. If we like it or not, if it's high or low culture Fair enough, point taken. I should have phrased it better. Let's put it this way: Tolkien was an intellectual and a Linguistic Professor, his works have cultural relevance, he was trying to write the new British mythology from the POV of a scholar, he wasn't thinking about writing a best seller to get rich. Conversely, I love the Terminator, but Terminator has no cultural relevance, it is popular culture or pop culture, it lives among us, yes, but the reason why it exists is entertaining people that go to the movies.
samatman 4y ago
Yes. An Italian was talking about an Italian story. They're Europeans. What did you intend this statement to contribute?

ubercore 4y ago

I want the best actor for a role, not one with the right skin color. You can hedge around the skincolor issue all you want, but that's the basis for your complaint.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
metoo I don't know why this fixation with the colour of the skin. I was merely pointing out that they changed a character, one that was very distinctly described, that obviously would be at the center of flamed debates and cause uproar. My understanding is that the more people talk about the movie, the less Disney need to spend in marketing it. Of course best actor for the role, but the studio never put it that way, so they are to blame IMO. Also, I mean, the blue fairy is called blue (it's actually turquoise in Italian) because she has long turquoise hair. The new fairy is bald. Kinda provocative, does it make for a more compelling story or is it for attention grab? We'll see when the movie comes out.
samatman 4y ago
Colorblind casting is the right approach to theatre, I firmly agree with this. The world might not be ready for Raisin in the Sun to be translated to Vietnamese and performed entirely by Vietnamese people, I say go for it. This works so well because theatre is a practice. Any play, even if it's performed once by one company (surely the mode for plays) is of the ages. Merry is black in your stage adaptation of the Fellowship, you say? Of course he is, everyone knew Isaac was going to get that role, he's a natural for it. Cinema is a product, not a practice or a process. Like it or not, it makes a single, definitive statement about a story. It's fair to dislike it when those choices differ dramatically from those made by the author, including in matters of appearance. If you think rabid fans won't be put off by 'trivial' things like an eye color mismatch, think again. You singling out skin color is your special pleading, reflecting your interests. I reject it. It is one of many aspects of casting in film which differs from the stage, for good reason.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  The problem is that casting is explicitly not colorblind. Nobody would complain if a Nigerian studio did a black-only version of LotR because (presumably) they have more black actors than white. It's the intentional woke fuckery, just so the studio can talk about racist manbabies or whatever, that is toxic. They're trying to start this very review-brigading as an excuse for however bad the show turns out. If it tanks they blame the ratings, not the material.

wizofaus 4y ago

Can't reply to the post below but where you say "I want to see black people stories, not just black people participating in white people stories where they are not originally mentioned." - I don't personally care if a movie reinterpretation casts a bald black actor (of either sex) for a character that's orginally a blue-haired pale-skinned fairy, but I definitely agree with this statement. And I wouldn't personally have an issue with using obviously caucasian actors in such a story, even if the original authors would have naturally assumed all the characters were black. Unless the character's racial background is important to the story itself (12 years a slave etc.) or the movie is aiming for historical accuracy, I'm all for having an open slather approach to colour-blind casting.

didibus 4y ago
> I want to see black people stories, not just black people participating in white people stories where they are not originally mentioned Isn't part of the problem that there are no such stories for those who were stolen from their culture and made to work by force, kept uneducated on purpose, and weren't given the opportunity to build stories of their own? A lot of Afro American don't speak their original language anymore, they don't know the folklore, the religions, the customs, might not even know where they came from, it's all been forgotten and erased, they're raised American now. I feel this is where inclusivity matters, if you're raised American, but aren't, and all movies and stories exclude you, it just reminds you that you're still treated differently. I'm definitely not very educated on Afro American stories, so maybe I'm wrong here, I just thought this is possible, it can be easy for colonized nations and enslaved people to lose their culture as they are forcefully assimilated, so decades later of this it's hard for them to make movies about what maybe is forgotten even to them.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Even if you restrict "black" to mean African Americans, that subculture has existed in its own right quite long enough for new stories to have been formed surely? The wikipedia article on African American literature would certainly suggest there's plenty to choose from.