13 ms·

This is a very astute comment. We are living in some kind of Twilight Zone environment right now. Corporations purchase IP for decades-long, popular franchises,

This is a very astute comment. We are living in some kind of Twilight Zone environment right now. Corporations purchase IP for decades-long, popular franchises, then deliberately alienate their core audience. Then they act as if all these people they just deliberately pissed off aren't real people. Words like "brigading" are a clever way to dehumanize your critics.

hunter-gatherer 4y ago
I think it just comes down to a money making tactic of making the movie/show available to the widest audience available to increase revenue. In my view it is sad, and basically creates more dull and less interesting cinema. I've been wanting a good HALO movie since the game was released... but I doubt I'll ever get it.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  Do these movies make money though? It seems to me that all these large corporations are more concerned with following ESG than with their own customers. What happens if you don’t follow “the message” we saw with Tesla some months ago.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    The new Star Wars films made $2 billion, $1.3 billion, and $1 billion in box office alone (this excludes streaming, DVD sales, merchandise, etc.) So yes, they're making money. (I have no opinion on these films btw; I haven't seen them, and only dimly remember the old ones – I never cared much for them.)
    - scraptor 4y ago
      Another way of looking at it is that they alienated half their audience in only three movies. They killed one of the most well known franchises for peanuts.
      - Beltalowda 4y ago
        $1 billion in box office is still huge; I wouldn't call it "peanuts". And the box office of the original three films was $776 million, $538 million, and $475 million, so that was quite similar.
        lordlimecat 4y ago
        Keep in mind that that is pre-inflation. Episode 4 made 1.3 billion adjusted for inflation, with a far smaller moviegoing audience. The new films are just milking every ounce of life out of the franchise. The money they're making is indeed peanuts to what a talented crew could have made.
        Beltalowda 4y ago
        My point was just that the pattern (subsequent films had significantly lower box offices) was the same. Comparing box offices from several decades ago is hard not so much due to inflation but because there are so many alternatives to watch something today, and the time from theatre to "you can watch it at home" is much much shorter than it used to be. You really need to compare all income sources, but those often aren't published. At any rate, the message I originally replied to was "do these movies make money though?", and the answer to that is "absolutely yes!" I don't really have an opinion on Star Wars as I didn't care all that much even for the older films. They probably could have been better (and made more money!), but it's the difference between "making a fuckton of money" vs. "making a shitton of money", so to speak. You don't need to make "the best" to actually make money; "good enough" is, well, good enough.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Bakary 4y ago
Applying Occam's razor, given that this process has repeated for years over multiple franchises, the conclusion is that the core audience is not who you think they are. Online commentary creates a strong visibility bias. Reddit is perhaps the most egregious example of this.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I don't see how it is not possible to make good product for both. That is the fans and general audience. Appeasing the later is pretty low bar. Instead it seems that shows are aimed at the vocal non-fans at social media.
  - Bakary 4y ago
    The opportunity cost is there to prevent that, and the tastes of the fans don't always coincide with the general audience.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      I don't think that is true. There is some complaining, but in general popular franchises are popular for reason. There likely were enough things that appealed already substantial audience. Just keep those in and adapt what has to be adapted for different medium. I'm not saying make a product for only the fans. But stay honest to source or previous material.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - Khoth 4y ago
    It's definitely possible - the original LotR movies succeeded at this. Fans had big lists of criticisms but despite that largely loved them.
- motogpjimbo 4y ago
  The evidence doesn't back you up here. The Rise of Skywalker made half as much money as The Force Awakens. Rey and Rose Tico merchandise didn't sell. Viewing figures for recent Disney Marvel TV shows have been extremely low. Star Trek Discovery can't be viewed in many countries because no network broadcasts it. Netflix's attempts at woke series tend to get cancelled after the first season. And so on. The poor performance of woke entertainment products is visible for all to see.
tptacek 4y ago
I'm sorry, "deliberately" alienating the core audience? How exactly are they doing that? It's an enormous, expensive rendition of mostly-obscure Tolkien content. How's that supposed to upset a fan?

hunter-gatherer 4y ago

I think it just comes down to a money making tactic of making the movie/show available to the widest audience available to increase revenue. In my view it is sad, and basically creates more dull and less interesting cinema. I've been wanting a good HALO movie since the game was released... but I doubt I'll ever get it.

coffeeblack 4y ago
Do these movies make money though? It seems to me that all these large corporations are more concerned with following ESG than with their own customers. What happens if you don’t follow “the message” we saw with Tesla some months ago.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  The new Star Wars films made $2 billion, $1.3 billion, and $1 billion in box office alone (this excludes streaming, DVD sales, merchandise, etc.) So yes, they're making money. (I have no opinion on these films btw; I haven't seen them, and only dimly remember the old ones – I never cared much for them.)
  - scraptor 4y ago
    Another way of looking at it is that they alienated half their audience in only three movies. They killed one of the most well known franchises for peanuts.
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      $1 billion in box office is still huge; I wouldn't call it "peanuts". And the box office of the original three films was $776 million, $538 million, and $475 million, so that was quite similar.
      - lordlimecat 4y ago
        Keep in mind that that is pre-inflation. Episode 4 made 1.3 billion adjusted for inflation, with a far smaller moviegoing audience. The new films are just milking every ounce of life out of the franchise. The money they're making is indeed peanuts to what a talented crew could have made.
        Beltalowda 4y ago
        My point was just that the pattern (subsequent films had significantly lower box offices) was the same. Comparing box offices from several decades ago is hard not so much due to inflation but because there are so many alternatives to watch something today, and the time from theatre to "you can watch it at home" is much much shorter than it used to be. You really need to compare all income sources, but those often aren't published. At any rate, the message I originally replied to was "do these movies make money though?", and the answer to that is "absolutely yes!" I don't really have an opinion on Star Wars as I didn't care all that much even for the older films. They probably could have been better (and made more money!), but it's the difference between "making a fuckton of money" vs. "making a shitton of money", so to speak. You don't need to make "the best" to actually make money; "good enough" is, well, good enough.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Bakary 4y ago

Applying Occam's razor, given that this process has repeated for years over multiple franchises, the conclusion is that the core audience is not who you think they are. Online commentary creates a strong visibility bias. Reddit is perhaps the most egregious example of this.

Ekaros 4y ago
I don't see how it is not possible to make good product for both. That is the fans and general audience. Appeasing the later is pretty low bar. Instead it seems that shows are aimed at the vocal non-fans at social media.
- Bakary 4y ago
  The opportunity cost is there to prevent that, and the tastes of the fans don't always coincide with the general audience.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    I don't think that is true. There is some complaining, but in general popular franchises are popular for reason. There likely were enough things that appealed already substantial audience. Just keep those in and adapt what has to be adapted for different medium. I'm not saying make a product for only the fans. But stay honest to source or previous material.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- Khoth 4y ago
  It's definitely possible - the original LotR movies succeeded at this. Fans had big lists of criticisms but despite that largely loved them.
motogpjimbo 4y ago
The evidence doesn't back you up here. The Rise of Skywalker made half as much money as The Force Awakens. Rey and Rose Tico merchandise didn't sell. Viewing figures for recent Disney Marvel TV shows have been extremely low. Star Trek Discovery can't be viewed in many countries because no network broadcasts it. Netflix's attempts at woke series tend to get cancelled after the first season. And so on. The poor performance of woke entertainment products is visible for all to see.

tptacek 4y ago

I'm sorry, "deliberately" alienating the core audience? How exactly are they doing that? It's an enormous, expensive rendition of mostly-obscure Tolkien content. How's that supposed to upset a fan?