4 ms·

xmonad is uber-wonderful but a good beginner documentation would be really awesome. I would like to have, on the official site, a list of distro, and for each,

by LBarret 15y ago

xmonad is uber-wonderful but a good beginner documentation would be really awesome. I would like to have, on the official site, a list of distro, and for each, a tutorial that have been tested and works. Instead, one needs to hunt for blog post that are either incomplete or not applicable. The latest Ubuntu upgrade was really a nightmare in this respect. had to mix xfce + xmonad but my setup is far from optimal...

exDM69 15y ago
>> xmonad is uber-wonderful but a good beginner documentation would be really awesome. Why don't you write one? A lot of the xmonad (and other tiling wm) communities are battle scarred veterans who have been using dwm (the ancestor of xmonad, awesome et al) since day one and they don't need no stinking documentation :) And besides, one of the core ideas of dwm and (some of) it's successors is that the source code is the documentation. So if you're a newb and would belong to the target group of the docs you're requesting, you're the perfect individual to write them. I'm sure all the old timers on the IRC channel will be glad to help you to get started and will be even more delighted if you finish a doc.
- aplusbi 15y ago
  Another one of the core ideas of dwm is "no noobs" which might explain the lack of documentation.
  - wyclif 15y ago
    If true (and I'm not sure it is), that's a shame, because it essentially means new adoption is discouraged, and that's death to a project.
    - qjz 15y ago
      Our project focuses on advanced and experienced computer users. In contrast with the usual proprietary software world or many mainstream open source projects that focus more on average and non-technical end users, we think that experienced users are mostly ignored. - from Suck Less Philosophy at http://suckless.org/manifest/ http://suckless.org/manifest/. I don't feel this translates to "no noobs" as much as it means "don't stop with the noobs." I'm pretty sure inexperienced users are welcome, but there's no interest in adding hand-holding features that conflict with the philosophy of "keeping things simple, minimal and usable." I use dwm & dmenu all the time, and have developed a real appreciation for the Suck Less approach (but I'm not a newbie, so I guess I'm safely in their target audience).
      - aplusbi 15y ago
        dwm in particular mentions that it's elitist in order to prevent stupid questions from novices: Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it’s pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions. There are some distributions that provide binary packages though. Also anyone who has ever subscribed to the suckless mailing list can testify to the elitist sentiment among many of its users.
    - aplusbi 15y ago
      Anti-noob is perhaps a bit harsh, but dwm is definitely elitist. It is designed to keep its user base small (see my reply to qjz).
- dons 15y ago
  xmonad is well documented: * http://xmonad.org/documentation.html http://xmonad.org/documentation.html E.g. * http://xmonad.org/tour.html http://xmonad.org/tour.html * http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Xmbindings.png http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Xmbindings.png It was always intended to be the antithesis of dwm in terms of friendliness and accessibility.
gwern 15y ago
I have heard good things in the past about beginners using Goerzen's tutorial: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Config_archive/John_Goerzen%27s_Configuration http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Config_archive/Joh...

by LBarret 15y ago

exDM69 15y ago

>> xmonad is uber-wonderful but a good beginner documentation would be really awesome. Why don't you write one? A lot of the xmonad (and other tiling wm) communities are battle scarred veterans who have been using dwm (the ancestor of xmonad, awesome et al) since day one and they don't need no stinking documentation :) And besides, one of the core ideas of dwm and (some of) it's successors is that the source code is the documentation. So if you're a newb and would belong to the target group of the docs you're requesting, you're the perfect individual to write them. I'm sure all the old timers on the IRC channel will be glad to help you to get started and will be even more delighted if you finish a doc.

aplusbi 15y ago
Another one of the core ideas of dwm is "no noobs" which might explain the lack of documentation.
- wyclif 15y ago
  If true (and I'm not sure it is), that's a shame, because it essentially means new adoption is discouraged, and that's death to a project.
  - qjz 15y ago
    Our project focuses on advanced and experienced computer users. In contrast with the usual proprietary software world or many mainstream open source projects that focus more on average and non-technical end users, we think that experienced users are mostly ignored. - from Suck Less Philosophy at http://suckless.org/manifest/ http://suckless.org/manifest/. I don't feel this translates to "no noobs" as much as it means "don't stop with the noobs." I'm pretty sure inexperienced users are welcome, but there's no interest in adding hand-holding features that conflict with the philosophy of "keeping things simple, minimal and usable." I use dwm & dmenu all the time, and have developed a real appreciation for the Suck Less approach (but I'm not a newbie, so I guess I'm safely in their target audience).
    - aplusbi 15y ago
      dwm in particular mentions that it's elitist in order to prevent stupid questions from novices: Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it’s pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions. There are some distributions that provide binary packages though. Also anyone who has ever subscribed to the suckless mailing list can testify to the elitist sentiment among many of its users.
  - aplusbi 15y ago
    Anti-noob is perhaps a bit harsh, but dwm is definitely elitist. It is designed to keep its user base small (see my reply to qjz).
dons 15y ago
xmonad is well documented: * http://xmonad.org/documentation.html http://xmonad.org/documentation.html E.g. * http://xmonad.org/tour.html http://xmonad.org/tour.html * http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Xmbindings.png http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Xmbindings.png It was always intended to be the antithesis of dwm in terms of friendliness and accessibility.

gwern 15y ago

I have heard good things in the past about beginners using Goerzen's tutorial: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Config_archive/John_Goerzen%27s_Configuration http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad/Config_archive/Joh...