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Brexit is a self own of epic proportions. With potential for Ireland to reunite and Scotland to go independent. Thanks for sharing

by kfarr 4y ago

Kaibeezy 4y ago
Confirming this URL works. I sometimes feel guilty about watching the UK stumble with mortal wounds like this, as if it’s some grotesque medieval entertainment. Starmer should unwind the pear of anguish and say he’ll investigate reversing Brexit.
- dfawcus 4y ago
  Brexit can not be "reversed", any politician claiming such is lying. The most that can happen is that we apply to rejoin, but as a new applicant, we'd have to accept the full set of stuff, with no opt outs. That even assumes the existing members would even accept us again as a member, which given how the relationship has been going seems unlikely.
  - jahnu 4y ago
    Agree. And not only that, there is little appetite amongst a large proportion of English voters to join again anyway. Even among those who feel it went badly and they wish they voted otherwise in hindsight. I highly recommend this speech given by Fintan O’Toole describing his hypothesis on what’s going on in the UK and specifically England and how it results in things like Brexit https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SeadvWsn_k https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SeadvWsn_k
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > Starmer should unwind the pear of anguish and say he’ll investigate reversing Brexit. Only so they can leave again in a few years? People who voted Brexit didn't just disappear, and the broad EU-scepticism that was always present certainly didn't. You can't force these things through; maybe in 20 or 30 years if (emphasis on if) a broad consensus has been reached: sure. But now? It would be pretty ridiculous. Lots of things about Brexit could have been handled better, but it's a done deal at this point. It's also important to distinguish between Brexit as a concept and the bumbling of May and especially Johnson governments. NI was always going to be a difficult point, and "that agreement we had about NI? We decided that it's not good after all and we will unilaterally cancel it even though we signed it ourselves, kthxfuckitybye" has nothing to do with Brexit as a concept, and everything to do with the government. Pumping sewage in the sea? Again, not a Brexit problem – a UK governance problem. etc. These are the real problems that should be fixed by any new government (among many others). In my opinion Brexit has always primarily been about dissatisfaction with the British government and politics, rather than the EU. British politicians have long had a tendency to blame the EU for their own policy failings, and one of the reasons I was low-key in favour of Brexit is that the ability to (often inaccurately) deflect criticism towards the EU would be taken away. It remains to be seen whether that will happen (another was that it was always an unhappy and strained relationship, and that the EU would be better off without the UK).
  - Kaibeezy 4y ago
    In my view, Brexit is largely the unsurprising result of electing flashy, shallow, easily bored people who are surprised to find themselves in charge and are also are incompetent problem-solvers, so they say “fuck it” and flip a coin, whatever, look at me I’m helping. At the other end of the spectrum, you could have competent people doing hard, incremental, thoughtful, low-drama things to improve a complicated situation, but they are too boring to get elected repeatedly. Nice if we could have something in between, personable, competent managers, but of course they would be promptly shredded by the public, caught between Spanish ticklers on the right and crocodile shears on the left. /returns to under large rock /apologizes for talking politics, hopes it was actually political science theory
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      Theresa May, David Cameron, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, John Mayor, Margaret Thatcher ... A lot can be said about any of these people, but not that they were "flashy, shallow, easily bored". Boris Johnson was a fluke, not a pattern. And eventually he was also a fluke that was forced to resign by his own party.
      - Kaibeezy 4y ago
        I’m talking about Brexit, so it’s Cameron, May, Johnson. Riverboat gamblers. If it works, they “win”, but when it doesn’t they jump ship.

Brexit is a self own of epic proportions. With potential for Ireland to reunite and Scotland to go independent. Thanks for sharing

by kfarr 4y ago

Brexit is a self own of epic proportions. With potential for Ireland to reunite and Scotland to go independent. Thanks for sharing

Kaibeezy 4y ago

Confirming this URL works. I sometimes feel guilty about watching the UK stumble with mortal wounds like this, as if it’s some grotesque medieval entertainment. Starmer should unwind the pear of anguish and say he’ll investigate reversing Brexit.

dfawcus 4y ago
Brexit can not be "reversed", any politician claiming such is lying. The most that can happen is that we apply to rejoin, but as a new applicant, we'd have to accept the full set of stuff, with no opt outs. That even assumes the existing members would even accept us again as a member, which given how the relationship has been going seems unlikely.
- jahnu 4y ago
  Agree. And not only that, there is little appetite amongst a large proportion of English voters to join again anyway. Even among those who feel it went badly and they wish they voted otherwise in hindsight. I highly recommend this speech given by Fintan O’Toole describing his hypothesis on what’s going on in the UK and specifically England and how it results in things like Brexit https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SeadvWsn_k https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SeadvWsn_k
Beltalowda 4y ago
> Starmer should unwind the pear of anguish and say he’ll investigate reversing Brexit. Only so they can leave again in a few years? People who voted Brexit didn't just disappear, and the broad EU-scepticism that was always present certainly didn't. You can't force these things through; maybe in 20 or 30 years if (emphasis on if) a broad consensus has been reached: sure. But now? It would be pretty ridiculous. Lots of things about Brexit could have been handled better, but it's a done deal at this point. It's also important to distinguish between Brexit as a concept and the bumbling of May and especially Johnson governments. NI was always going to be a difficult point, and "that agreement we had about NI? We decided that it's not good after all and we will unilaterally cancel it even though we signed it ourselves, kthxfuckitybye" has nothing to do with Brexit as a concept, and everything to do with the government. Pumping sewage in the sea? Again, not a Brexit problem – a UK governance problem. etc. These are the real problems that should be fixed by any new government (among many others). In my opinion Brexit has always primarily been about dissatisfaction with the British government and politics, rather than the EU. British politicians have long had a tendency to blame the EU for their own policy failings, and one of the reasons I was low-key in favour of Brexit is that the ability to (often inaccurately) deflect criticism towards the EU would be taken away. It remains to be seen whether that will happen (another was that it was always an unhappy and strained relationship, and that the EU would be better off without the UK).
- Kaibeezy 4y ago
  In my view, Brexit is largely the unsurprising result of electing flashy, shallow, easily bored people who are surprised to find themselves in charge and are also are incompetent problem-solvers, so they say “fuck it” and flip a coin, whatever, look at me I’m helping. At the other end of the spectrum, you could have competent people doing hard, incremental, thoughtful, low-drama things to improve a complicated situation, but they are too boring to get elected repeatedly. Nice if we could have something in between, personable, competent managers, but of course they would be promptly shredded by the public, caught between Spanish ticklers on the right and crocodile shears on the left. /returns to under large rock /apologizes for talking politics, hopes it was actually political science theory
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    Theresa May, David Cameron, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, John Mayor, Margaret Thatcher ... A lot can be said about any of these people, but not that they were "flashy, shallow, easily bored". Boris Johnson was a fluke, not a pattern. And eventually he was also a fluke that was forced to resign by his own party.
    - Kaibeezy 4y ago
      I’m talking about Brexit, so it’s Cameron, May, Johnson. Riverboat gamblers. If it works, they “win”, but when it doesn’t they jump ship.