5 ms·

I recall being am amateur epidemiologists suspicious of "elites" and I bet on masks being efficacious while health authorities were pooh-poohing them and came o

I recall being am amateur epidemiologists suspicious of "elites" and I bet on masks being efficacious while health authorities were pooh-poohing them and came out ahead. I felt the "Elites" were being bias by the ongoing shortage of medical masks into downplaying the efficacy of masks for the general public, which in hindsight, actually seems pretty spot on. I saw lots of people sharing studies, including before peer review, I mostly didn't see anybody come to a substantively different conclusion from the authors after like the first few months of pandemic confusion had cleared up. I found scepticism and DIY science very helpful this pandemic especially when things were more chaotic.

mjevans 4y ago
I'm not sure who to blame for that; but agree it was a mistake. Stress a lack of evidence (at that time)? Sure. Stress that N-95 and KN-95 masks must be reserved for hospital workers, and possibly even pre-press banning their sale under emergency commandeering measures? I think we can all guess why that didn't fly politically (it would require admitting there was a serious pandemic). The public should never be 'lied to' nor 'ticked' (which the people I've spoken with mostly assume was happening with that initial mask stance) and should be treated as adults, possibly ones without a full set of information from expert matters on a subject.
muglug 4y ago
There were many people posting links about hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin and discussing efficacy in the presence of scant information. Also lots of discussions around R0 etc.
- AbrahamParangi 4y ago
  The story of hydroxychloroquine is much misunderstood. People remember it as “Trump’s horse dewormer” but it was one of the first potential treatments to emerge in the Chinese standard of care in the early stages of the pandemic. That fact, combined with the “fog of war” and that we know hcq is well tolerated in humans makes it a fairly reasonable bet. The bet being wrong is a separate matter to whether or not it was reasonable. Conversely, I would argue the early anti-mask messaging was unreasonable based on similar logic (well bounded and low costs, potentially high benefits). The conclusion that I know some people took away from it is that critical thinking is not an evolutionarily favored trait in certain administrative roles.
j7ake 4y ago
Elites from where ? Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, and China all pushed for masks. Usa and other Western European countries were much slower to adopt. When there are discrepancies in the global adoption, then one can look into political factors. Also studies from SARS back in 2000 convincingly showed that masks worked.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  It’s weird. Masks have always been known to reduce transmission from a sick person. Keyword being reduce. But the anti mask people, especially on Twitter or Facebook are like “see this study! Masks don’t work” and it’s like yes it wasn’t about preventing you from getting sick, it’s reducing a sick person from spreading. People can be sick and not realise it and spread it so it’s easier to get everyone to wear masks. Masks and Vaccines are 2 massively misunderstood things during the pandemic. When I was at school (New Zealand) we learned that vaccines help give the immune system the information to fight a virus. But people in America and Europe have this idea that vaccine is like a shield that prevents you from getting sick entirely and then claims vaccines don’t work…
  - thedrbrian 4y ago
    When you hear the terms 100% effective and the president says if you get vaccinated you won’t get covid , you can see where the confusion comes from. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-21/ap-fact-check-biden-inflates-jobs-impact-from-his-policies https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-21/ap-... And then you get Whitty and his infamous 4000 deaths per day graph. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8908503/Was-lockdown-sold-LIE-Oxford-scientist-says-4-000-deaths-graph-NOT-used.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8908503/Was-lockdow...
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      :-| didn’t know Biden said all that. I’ve kinda stepped back from reading American politics for the last couple of years cos it’s so depressing.
  - 4y ago
wikitopian 4y ago
Yup. The wisdom of locking down toddlers and children for years on end was also a spot where the uppity rubes were correct and all the science wizards were disastrously incorrect.

mjevans 4y ago

I'm not sure who to blame for that; but agree it was a mistake. Stress a lack of evidence (at that time)? Sure. Stress that N-95 and KN-95 masks must be reserved for hospital workers, and possibly even pre-press banning their sale under emergency commandeering measures? I think we can all guess why that didn't fly politically (it would require admitting there was a serious pandemic). The public should never be 'lied to' nor 'ticked' (which the people I've spoken with mostly assume was happening with that initial mask stance) and should be treated as adults, possibly ones without a full set of information from expert matters on a subject.

muglug 4y ago

There were many people posting links about hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin and discussing efficacy in the presence of scant information. Also lots of discussions around R0 etc.

AbrahamParangi 4y ago
The story of hydroxychloroquine is much misunderstood. People remember it as “Trump’s horse dewormer” but it was one of the first potential treatments to emerge in the Chinese standard of care in the early stages of the pandemic. That fact, combined with the “fog of war” and that we know hcq is well tolerated in humans makes it a fairly reasonable bet. The bet being wrong is a separate matter to whether or not it was reasonable. Conversely, I would argue the early anti-mask messaging was unreasonable based on similar logic (well bounded and low costs, potentially high benefits). The conclusion that I know some people took away from it is that critical thinking is not an evolutionarily favored trait in certain administrative roles.

j7ake 4y ago

Elites from where ? Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, and China all pushed for masks. Usa and other Western European countries were much slower to adopt. When there are discrepancies in the global adoption, then one can look into political factors. Also studies from SARS back in 2000 convincingly showed that masks worked.

philliphaydon 4y ago
It’s weird. Masks have always been known to reduce transmission from a sick person. Keyword being reduce. But the anti mask people, especially on Twitter or Facebook are like “see this study! Masks don’t work” and it’s like yes it wasn’t about preventing you from getting sick, it’s reducing a sick person from spreading. People can be sick and not realise it and spread it so it’s easier to get everyone to wear masks. Masks and Vaccines are 2 massively misunderstood things during the pandemic. When I was at school (New Zealand) we learned that vaccines help give the immune system the information to fight a virus. But people in America and Europe have this idea that vaccine is like a shield that prevents you from getting sick entirely and then claims vaccines don’t work…
- thedrbrian 4y ago
  When you hear the terms 100% effective and the president says if you get vaccinated you won’t get covid , you can see where the confusion comes from. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-21/ap-fact-check-biden-inflates-jobs-impact-from-his-policies https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-21/ap-... And then you get Whitty and his infamous 4000 deaths per day graph. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8908503/Was-lockdown-sold-LIE-Oxford-scientist-says-4-000-deaths-graph-NOT-used.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8908503/Was-lockdow...
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    :-| didn’t know Biden said all that. I’ve kinda stepped back from reading American politics for the last couple of years cos it’s so depressing.
- 4y ago

wikitopian 4y ago

Yup. The wisdom of locking down toddlers and children for years on end was also a spot where the uppity rubes were correct and all the science wizards were disastrously incorrect.