4 ms·

Germany does not play around with fare evaders. The checkers will enter the train and check your validated ticket. If you do not pay they will fine you on the s

by monksy 4y ago

Germany does not play around with fare evaders. The checkers will enter the train and check your validated ticket. If you do not pay they will fine you on the spot and if you do not pay you do risk going to jail. Transit is expensive, claiming people have a right to free transit is just idiotic on so many levels.

Nextgrid 4y ago
> Transit is expensive, claiming people have a right to free transit is just idiotic on so many levels. It doesn't matter how expensive transit is, if the total costs of fare collection & enforcement is greater than what they collect they're better off making it free and potentially making up the small shortfall with extra taxes. Considering a lot of these systems will be built by large consultancies specialized in milking out government contracts while delivering shoddy work, I wouldn't be surprised if fare collection was actually way more expensive that it needs to be.
reaperducer 4y ago
Germany does not play around with fare evaders. The checkers will enter the train and check your validated ticket. If you do not pay they will fine you on the spot Houston, Texas is like that. I got checked four times in three days. I saw non-paying people get fined on the spot. From what I could hear, it was $75.
danielfoster 4y ago
Without taking a side here, remember that education and police protection are also expensive. Few would agree to the phrase, “Education is expensive, so claiming so many children have a right to free education is idiotic on so many levels.” Transit is very expensive and the cost / benefit needs to be decided by the public. Governments also need a plan to pay for it. But I would not say it is idiotic just because it is expensive.
- mpalmer 4y ago
  The difference is that education and policing are not on-demand services, at least not in the way transit is. I can ride the bus as many times as I like, and that creates costs for the system. There's no direct relationship between user whim and system costs for the other two services.
  - danielfoster 4y ago
    I see your point and agree that every bus ride is an additional cost. Keep in mind th at roads are also on-demand and generally not priced per-use. People generally pay the same for roads whether they drive a huge SUV every day that puts more stress on the road or have a small car they drive on weekends. Roads cost the same whether you use 1km to get home from work or need to travel 20km. Roads are in fact overused and traffic is a nightmare in many cities because they are free. You could easily create a pay-per-use model for roads that charges based on usage. Instead roads are just seen as a public good used by everyone. There's no reason why society could not treat public transportation the same way. I'm not necessarily saying it should be free. Countries with the best public transportation tend to charge something, but the goal isn't to cover the cost because transportation is seen as a public good.
    - Inhibit 4y ago
      Here we tax gas to cover the cost of the roadway. We are collecting more revenue from SUVs than a light compact. Electrics turn that somewhat on it's head, though.
      - danielfoster 4y ago
        You mean in the US? Gas taxes do not fully cover the cost of roads, actually. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/debunking-the-myth-that-because-of-the-gas-tax-only-drivers-pay-for-roads https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/debunking...
GekkePrutser 4y ago
> Transit is expensive, claiming people have a right to free transit is just idiotic on so many levels. I think it will really help reduce car use if transport were free. People would use it more, obviously but that would lead to more services being available. Win-win especially for the environment IMO. Of course what I'm arguing for is making transport free officially, not fare evasion.
- monksy 4y ago
  I can't remember which video if it was Half as Interesting or City nerd. However, people tend to use transit if it is reliable, trust worthy, and available. Even with a reduced cost, if you have a bad network already.. it's just going to make it worse and then piss off the tax payers. System collapse with public transit is a sad thing to see.
7speter 4y ago
This is how select bus service buses are supposed to work in NYC. You buy a ticket before getting on the bus, and fare checkers randomly get on (haven’t seen on since I’ve started riding again this year, but its maybe a few times a month). If you don’t have a ticket the fare checkers round the evaders up and give them tickets. In the before times people would ask for your ticket as you got off.

by monksy 4y ago

Nextgrid 4y ago

> Transit is expensive, claiming people have a right to free transit is just idiotic on so many levels. It doesn't matter how expensive transit is, if the total costs of fare collection & enforcement is greater than what they collect they're better off making it free and potentially making up the small shortfall with extra taxes. Considering a lot of these systems will be built by large consultancies specialized in milking out government contracts while delivering shoddy work, I wouldn't be surprised if fare collection was actually way more expensive that it needs to be.

reaperducer 4y ago

Germany does not play around with fare evaders. The checkers will enter the train and check your validated ticket. If you do not pay they will fine you on the spot Houston, Texas is like that. I got checked four times in three days. I saw non-paying people get fined on the spot. From what I could hear, it was $75.

danielfoster 4y ago

Without taking a side here, remember that education and police protection are also expensive. Few would agree to the phrase, “Education is expensive, so claiming so many children have a right to free education is idiotic on so many levels.” Transit is very expensive and the cost / benefit needs to be decided by the public. Governments also need a plan to pay for it. But I would not say it is idiotic just because it is expensive.

mpalmer 4y ago
The difference is that education and policing are not on-demand services, at least not in the way transit is. I can ride the bus as many times as I like, and that creates costs for the system. There's no direct relationship between user whim and system costs for the other two services.
- danielfoster 4y ago
  I see your point and agree that every bus ride is an additional cost. Keep in mind th at roads are also on-demand and generally not priced per-use. People generally pay the same for roads whether they drive a huge SUV every day that puts more stress on the road or have a small car they drive on weekends. Roads cost the same whether you use 1km to get home from work or need to travel 20km. Roads are in fact overused and traffic is a nightmare in many cities because they are free. You could easily create a pay-per-use model for roads that charges based on usage. Instead roads are just seen as a public good used by everyone. There's no reason why society could not treat public transportation the same way. I'm not necessarily saying it should be free. Countries with the best public transportation tend to charge something, but the goal isn't to cover the cost because transportation is seen as a public good.
  - Inhibit 4y ago
    Here we tax gas to cover the cost of the roadway. We are collecting more revenue from SUVs than a light compact. Electrics turn that somewhat on it's head, though.
    - danielfoster 4y ago
      You mean in the US? Gas taxes do not fully cover the cost of roads, actually. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/debunking-the-myth-that-because-of-the-gas-tax-only-drivers-pay-for-roads https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-13/debunking...

GekkePrutser 4y ago

> Transit is expensive, claiming people have a right to free transit is just idiotic on so many levels. I think it will really help reduce car use if transport were free. People would use it more, obviously but that would lead to more services being available. Win-win especially for the environment IMO. Of course what I'm arguing for is making transport free officially, not fare evasion.

monksy 4y ago
I can't remember which video if it was Half as Interesting or City nerd. However, people tend to use transit if it is reliable, trust worthy, and available. Even with a reduced cost, if you have a bad network already.. it's just going to make it worse and then piss off the tax payers. System collapse with public transit is a sad thing to see.

7speter 4y ago

This is how select bus service buses are supposed to work in NYC. You buy a ticket before getting on the bus, and fare checkers randomly get on (haven’t seen on since I’ve started riding again this year, but its maybe a few times a month). If you don’t have a ticket the fare checkers round the evaders up and give them tickets. In the before times people would ask for your ticket as you got off.