6 ms·

I think you’re looking at this from the wrong perspective. If your other option is to be a FAANG software engineer, sure, do that instead. For the vast swathes

by imgabe 4y ago

I think you’re looking at this from the wrong perspective. If your other option is to be a FAANG software engineer, sure, do that instead. For the vast swathes of the country where the available jobs are some mix of retail/warehouse low wage drudgery, long haul trucking, drug dealing / fraud / other crime, or welfare, working in semiconductors might be a welcome and attractive option.

californical 4y ago
“Better than welfare or crime” doesn’t really sell me that it’s a great option
- jprd 4y ago
  You're replying from a place where you have OTHER options.
- nickff 4y ago
  We should compare people's actual options, and not fall victim to the nirvana fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    Sure but people able to be process engineers on the caliber of those at TSMC are likely to be able to get good SWE jobs if they really wanted to. We're talking about highly qualified jobs here, un Taiwan a lot of those are gonna have PhDs+.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      phD are not what they used to be
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
        If you can get a STEM PhD you can probably get into FAANG. Sure they're not what they used to be, they're still difficult to get. And they require many of the same skills as modern programming interviews.
        ekianjo 4y ago
        > nd they require many of the same skills as modern programming interviews. I don't know, I have seen numerous PHDs who can't competently write any piece of code, I'm beginning to think it's a feature, not a coincidence.
        sudosysgen 4y ago
        That's because their job isn't really to write code, it's to do something else. But if you can get a PhD you can probably learn how to leetcode. A lot of them don't really care much about being able to write good code.
    - sdvsa 4y ago
      People that create the factory flow, maybe. But I’d argue it’s a pretty different set of skills. People that run the flow, definitely not.
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
        Some of those that maintain and make sure some machines are working correctly do have very advanced degrees, but I agree most aren't as qualified. However, these aren't the people the video is talking about nor the people that will be difficult to recruit.
novok 4y ago
The vast majority of people who are smart enough and have the work ethic to finish an EE degree are also smart enough to become a FANG engineer. EE is harder than computer science by far. So for the set of people who can be fab engineers, live in the USA and speak English, yes, the FANG engineer option is always there.
- sdvsa 4y ago
  As an EE I can assure you that’s not true. Also, many jobs at a fab don’t require a bachelors. Often they will want a relevant associate degree though. Here’s an example: https://www.ziprecruiter.com/c/HRL-Laboratories/Job/Wafer-Process-Technician-III/-in-Malibu,CA?jid=5e91f28fe990850f&lvk=p9Nokmz6C9pjgStb8byMQg.--MbjHm-HOg https://www.ziprecruiter.com/c/HRL-Laboratories/Job/Wafer-Pr...
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    That's not really the jobs that are most problematic. As the video mentions, Intel fixed this issue for them by setting up training pipelines from community colleges for these jobs. The issue is moreso for the positions requiring more advanced education.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Yes, but if you didn’t go to the handful of acceptable schools, it doesn’t matter much how smart you are.
  - leetcrew 4y ago
    this may have been true at some point in the past, but it certainly isn't now. most of the engineers I work with have degrees from schools I had never heard of before meeting them. my team just hired a new grad that didn't even have any internships in school. it's not hard to get an interview at FAANGs these days. the difficult (or "luck-required") part is actually giving good solutions to four out of five algo problems, each in 45 minutes.
  - fathrowaway12 4y ago

by imgabe 4y ago

californical 4y ago

“Better than welfare or crime” doesn’t really sell me that it’s a great option

jprd 4y ago
You're replying from a place where you have OTHER options.
nickff 4y ago
We should compare people's actual options, and not fall victim to the nirvana fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  Sure but people able to be process engineers on the caliber of those at TSMC are likely to be able to get good SWE jobs if they really wanted to. We're talking about highly qualified jobs here, un Taiwan a lot of those are gonna have PhDs+.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    phD are not what they used to be
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      If you can get a STEM PhD you can probably get into FAANG. Sure they're not what they used to be, they're still difficult to get. And they require many of the same skills as modern programming interviews.
      - ekianjo 4y ago
        > nd they require many of the same skills as modern programming interviews. I don't know, I have seen numerous PHDs who can't competently write any piece of code, I'm beginning to think it's a feature, not a coincidence.
        sudosysgen 4y ago
        That's because their job isn't really to write code, it's to do something else. But if you can get a PhD you can probably learn how to leetcode. A lot of them don't really care much about being able to write good code.
  - sdvsa 4y ago
    People that create the factory flow, maybe. But I’d argue it’s a pretty different set of skills. People that run the flow, definitely not.
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      Some of those that maintain and make sure some machines are working correctly do have very advanced degrees, but I agree most aren't as qualified. However, these aren't the people the video is talking about nor the people that will be difficult to recruit.

novok 4y ago

The vast majority of people who are smart enough and have the work ethic to finish an EE degree are also smart enough to become a FANG engineer. EE is harder than computer science by far. So for the set of people who can be fab engineers, live in the USA and speak English, yes, the FANG engineer option is always there.

sdvsa 4y ago
As an EE I can assure you that’s not true. Also, many jobs at a fab don’t require a bachelors. Often they will want a relevant associate degree though. Here’s an example: https://www.ziprecruiter.com/c/HRL-Laboratories/Job/Wafer-Process-Technician-III/-in-Malibu,CA?jid=5e91f28fe990850f&lvk=p9Nokmz6C9pjgStb8byMQg.--MbjHm-HOg https://www.ziprecruiter.com/c/HRL-Laboratories/Job/Wafer-Pr...
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  That's not really the jobs that are most problematic. As the video mentions, Intel fixed this issue for them by setting up training pipelines from community colleges for these jobs. The issue is moreso for the positions requiring more advanced education.
Spooky23 4y ago
Yes, but if you didn’t go to the handful of acceptable schools, it doesn’t matter much how smart you are.
- leetcrew 4y ago
  this may have been true at some point in the past, but it certainly isn't now. most of the engineers I work with have degrees from schools I had never heard of before meeting them. my team just hired a new grad that didn't even have any internships in school. it's not hard to get an interview at FAANGs these days. the difficult (or "luck-required") part is actually giving good solutions to four out of five algo problems, each in 45 minutes.
- fathrowaway12 4y ago