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What drives great web framework is a culture of making product. RoR and PHP based frameworks have massive product makers, thus it drives forces into libraries m

What drives great web framework is a culture of making product. RoR and PHP based frameworks have massive product makers, thus it drives forces into libraries made for variety of products. Elixir's culture is engineering-ish. So you will see decent libs that deal with weird mechanism stuff, but lack of vibe and forces driven from business needs.

cultofmetatron 4y ago
This is very true. the ecosystem has astounding next gen tooling for solving all sorts of things easily that are real bugbears in other languages (oban, horde, genstage, numbat) but the libraries for interfacing with actual third party services or doing mundane things are a bit lacking. Its the reason I tell startups to use laravel or node instead even though I built my startup in elixir. Yes its a huge advantage for what we do (realtime synced apps for managing restaurants) but its overkill for most saas products that are just glorified crud apps. laravel is a huge winner there with its library of prebuilt apps that handle user authentication, billing, tenancy as drop in components.
- PaulStatezny 4y ago
  > the libraries for interfacing with actual third party services or doing mundane things are a bit lacking Can you provide concrete examples for this? I work with Elixir every day and your statement does not resonate with me at all. Integrating with third party services and doing mundane things are generally no harder in Elixir than any other language.
  - superzadeh 4y ago
    Datadog APM, Segment: both key to building day to day products, none first party support. Community libraries exist, but their bus factor isn’t looking good.
    - atonse 4y ago
      Spent weeks getting spandex (elixir Datadog lib) to work properly. Totally concur. And then found out it was abandoned. But everyone is moving to open telemetry.
  - cultofmetatron 4y ago
    There's plenty of example. Stripity stripe is an example of one of the better integrated examples and even I've been a bit frustrated with it at times. We're currently stuck on a slightly older version and last I checked, it didn't support the latest version of the stripe API. And that's an example of a library thats relatively well maintained. If you want to use authorize.net for instance, you have to roll your own. (there's a hex package but its still very much in beta). If you wanted to do banking and use Synapsefi, be prepared to roll your own. Now it wouldn't' be any harder to write these libraries in elixir vs ruby or laravel. The difference is there are well polished libraries for both those platforms you can just drop in and use. That makes what could be a week of work in elixir, about half a day in ruby by virtue of the work largely being done for you already. If the library doesn't exist for either, then I agree, elixir isn't going to be any harder to integrate.

cultofmetatron 4y ago

This is very true. the ecosystem has astounding next gen tooling for solving all sorts of things easily that are real bugbears in other languages (oban, horde, genstage, numbat) but the libraries for interfacing with actual third party services or doing mundane things are a bit lacking. Its the reason I tell startups to use laravel or node instead even though I built my startup in elixir. Yes its a huge advantage for what we do (realtime synced apps for managing restaurants) but its overkill for most saas products that are just glorified crud apps. laravel is a huge winner there with its library of prebuilt apps that handle user authentication, billing, tenancy as drop in components.

PaulStatezny 4y ago
> the libraries for interfacing with actual third party services or doing mundane things are a bit lacking Can you provide concrete examples for this? I work with Elixir every day and your statement does not resonate with me at all. Integrating with third party services and doing mundane things are generally no harder in Elixir than any other language.
- superzadeh 4y ago
  Datadog APM, Segment: both key to building day to day products, none first party support. Community libraries exist, but their bus factor isn’t looking good.
  - atonse 4y ago
    Spent weeks getting spandex (elixir Datadog lib) to work properly. Totally concur. And then found out it was abandoned. But everyone is moving to open telemetry.
- cultofmetatron 4y ago
  There's plenty of example. Stripity stripe is an example of one of the better integrated examples and even I've been a bit frustrated with it at times. We're currently stuck on a slightly older version and last I checked, it didn't support the latest version of the stripe API. And that's an example of a library thats relatively well maintained. If you want to use authorize.net for instance, you have to roll your own. (there's a hex package but its still very much in beta). If you wanted to do banking and use Synapsefi, be prepared to roll your own. Now it wouldn't' be any harder to write these libraries in elixir vs ruby or laravel. The difference is there are well polished libraries for both those platforms you can just drop in and use. That makes what could be a week of work in elixir, about half a day in ruby by virtue of the work largely being done for you already. If the library doesn't exist for either, then I agree, elixir isn't going to be any harder to integrate.