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Not without 5 years of OS and application support. That's the primary reason I "junk drawer"'ed my previous iPhone. Had the OS and app support still been ther

Not without 5 years of OS and application support. That's the primary reason I "junk drawer"'ed my previous iPhone. Had the OS and app support still been there, I might still be using it today.

wtallis 4y ago
Unlocked bootloaders and open source drivers are the only viable way to get 5+ years of OS support on Android phones. Even with a regulatory mandate, most Android phone manufacturers would be unable to provide satisfactory software maintenance on that kind of time scale. But community projects would be able to do so, and are already doing so in niches where bootloaders and drivers are not a barrier.
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  If that's the case, then what they're trying to do simply will not work. Unlocked boot loaders and open source drivers might be enough for you and me to keep our phones in service for 5 additional years, but it's not going to be enough for my mom. There are far more people out there like my mom than there are people like you and me.
  - fezfight 4y ago
    If we were to give up all the things that someone's figurative family members couldn't handle, we'd be literally living in the dark ages.
    - actually_a_dog 4y ago
      If we don't come up with sustainable ways for those metaphorical family members to consume, we'll end up there anyway.
      - fezfight 4y ago
        You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Because your mother can't easily update her phone, you'd have it so no one can? No, that's just silly.
        actually_a_dog 4y ago
        And you're strawmanning. That's not what I said at all. Please do not put words in my mouth. I said that this action by the EU will not result in more sustainable consumption, which seems to be the reason behind it. I wouldn't oppose forcing phones to be more open in order to increase their lifespan, but I also wouldn't expect that to increase sustainability.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        fezfight 4y ago
        Not strawmanning, just misunderstood! I think it would help, but it would require a big shift in the way people think about phones. They'd need to be thought of as computers right (which they are), so people would expect to be able to update them like they do a regular computer. Then even lay people could benefit by getting secure hand me downs.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    If grandma can't install lineage that's fine. She can sell or give the phone to someone who can who then uses it, sells it, or gives it to someone else (or back to grandma). Grandma can't fix a car either but she can at least get the tyres changed without paying the car's rrp and getting someone to heat it up within a few degrees of exploding, or drive it on a new road without it having a tantrum.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
olliej 4y ago
But iPhones do get 5 years of OS support? The iPhone 5 got major functionality updates in late 2019 I think 6 years after release, and got that apparently major security update this week (or last), which is 9 years
- fezfight 4y ago
  In addition to pioneering the majority of the ways phones are locked down, they also lost a lawsuit for degrading the performance of older phones with those updates. So it's not really a good thing? We want to be able to replace the battery ourselves cheaply with third party batteries if we want, or carry spares, and update the drivers and OS indefinitely, even if we have to do it ourselves. We want to replace a screen, or a board without getting our property bricked.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    You say that like the aim of the update was just to slow down those older phones (mainly iPhone 6). The problem was that the battery design of the iPhone 6 had a problem when it got old and could no longer provide enough power to run the SOC at full speed without sudden shutdowns. The patch slowed the SOC down enough that the battery could still provide a steady supply of power.
    - fezfight 4y ago
      It was the point. It was planned obsolescence. They lost or settled several lawsuits about it.
      - labcomputer 4y ago
        It obviously wasn’t, and it’s disingenuous to argue otherwise. Those phones had “mysterious” shutdown issues with ~20% battery remaining that started being reported about 6 months after release (when it was still the latest iPhone). Those same issues were somehow fixed with a software update, but not before the shutdowns made a bunch of customers angry. It’s obvious that Apple simply under-specced the batteries, not that they were trying to make the phone wear out early.

Not without 5 years of OS and application support. That's the primary reason I "junk drawer"'ed my previous iPhone. Had the OS and app support still been there, I might still be using it today.

wtallis 4y ago

Unlocked bootloaders and open source drivers are the only viable way to get 5+ years of OS support on Android phones. Even with a regulatory mandate, most Android phone manufacturers would be unable to provide satisfactory software maintenance on that kind of time scale. But community projects would be able to do so, and are already doing so in niches where bootloaders and drivers are not a barrier.

actually_a_dog 4y ago
If that's the case, then what they're trying to do simply will not work. Unlocked boot loaders and open source drivers might be enough for you and me to keep our phones in service for 5 additional years, but it's not going to be enough for my mom. There are far more people out there like my mom than there are people like you and me.
- fezfight 4y ago
  If we were to give up all the things that someone's figurative family members couldn't handle, we'd be literally living in the dark ages.
  - actually_a_dog 4y ago
    If we don't come up with sustainable ways for those metaphorical family members to consume, we'll end up there anyway.
    - fezfight 4y ago
      You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Because your mother can't easily update her phone, you'd have it so no one can? No, that's just silly.
      - actually_a_dog 4y ago
        And you're strawmanning. That's not what I said at all. Please do not put words in my mouth. I said that this action by the EU will not result in more sustainable consumption, which seems to be the reason behind it. I wouldn't oppose forcing phones to be more open in order to increase their lifespan, but I also wouldn't expect that to increase sustainability.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        fezfight 4y ago
        Not strawmanning, just misunderstood! I think it would help, but it would require a big shift in the way people think about phones. They'd need to be thought of as computers right (which they are), so people would expect to be able to update them like they do a regular computer. Then even lay people could benefit by getting secure hand me downs.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  If grandma can't install lineage that's fine. She can sell or give the phone to someone who can who then uses it, sells it, or gives it to someone else (or back to grandma). Grandma can't fix a car either but she can at least get the tyres changed without paying the car's rrp and getting someone to heat it up within a few degrees of exploding, or drive it on a new road without it having a tantrum.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

olliej 4y ago

But iPhones do get 5 years of OS support? The iPhone 5 got major functionality updates in late 2019 I think 6 years after release, and got that apparently major security update this week (or last), which is 9 years

fezfight 4y ago
In addition to pioneering the majority of the ways phones are locked down, they also lost a lawsuit for degrading the performance of older phones with those updates. So it's not really a good thing? We want to be able to replace the battery ourselves cheaply with third party batteries if we want, or carry spares, and update the drivers and OS indefinitely, even if we have to do it ourselves. We want to replace a screen, or a board without getting our property bricked.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  You say that like the aim of the update was just to slow down those older phones (mainly iPhone 6). The problem was that the battery design of the iPhone 6 had a problem when it got old and could no longer provide enough power to run the SOC at full speed without sudden shutdowns. The patch slowed the SOC down enough that the battery could still provide a steady supply of power.
  - fezfight 4y ago
    It was the point. It was planned obsolescence. They lost or settled several lawsuits about it.
    - labcomputer 4y ago
      It obviously wasn’t, and it’s disingenuous to argue otherwise. Those phones had “mysterious” shutdown issues with ~20% battery remaining that started being reported about 6 months after release (when it was still the latest iPhone). Those same issues were somehow fixed with a software update, but not before the shutdowns made a bunch of customers angry. It’s obvious that Apple simply under-specced the batteries, not that they were trying to make the phone wear out early.