4 ms·

Although I'm a big proponent of heat pumps, they are not the solution here. I ran the numbers for my country and it still works out cheaper to heat with gas tha

by fy20 4y ago

Although I'm a big proponent of heat pumps, they are not the solution here. I ran the numbers for my country and it still works out cheaper to heat with gas than a heat pump. Natural gas works out to be 13c/kWh and an electric heat pump 16c/kWh of heat. Why would someone pay close to €10k to switch to a heat pump, if the end result is going to be bills will not change? The only case a heat pump would be cheaper today is if you have solar, as then you can produce heat and hot water without any grid usage for half the year (the warmer part though), and you probably have net billing for the other half. In my country (and most of the EU) the elephant in the room is a lot of the electricity comes from natural gas, so switching to heat pumps alone will not drastically reduce natural gas demand. The market rates say it's better to burn directly than convert to electricity and then back to heat. I hope this is finally the thing that forces the EU to decarbonise electricity generation and switch to green energy (inc. nuclear), but given how slow things have changed over the last decade I somewhat doubt that. We already have the technology but Russian energy has been too cheap, now though...

kazen44 4y ago
to add to this, a ton of houses are not build for heatpump based systems. Most radiator style heating (aka, anything build prior to the 2000's) will not work with a heat pump because the water temperature cannot get high enough to get proper cooling coefficiency. Replacing your entire radiator based system in many houses is not possible without an extreme renovation of the home.
- flaviut 4y ago
  mini-split systems are incredibly efficient and much easier to install than central heating. I would not expect them to require extreme renovation.
markvdb 4y ago
The fact that you and I have to calculate if it makes sense to switch from natural gas to heat pump heating is an abject policymaking failure at several levels. This should have been abundantly clear months ago, with information campaigns and economic stimuli. Heat pumps are an important part of the solution. Even with 100% natural gas electricity production, they cut energy consumption in less than half [0] Simple measures and clear communication about them are desperately required. What about something like an EU level free energy voucher: - heating: local degree days [1] * 0.5 kWh/person for winter 2022-2023 - non-heating energy consumption: 500 kWh/person voucher for 2022 - voucher redeemable against electric bill, pellets or firewood, district heating bill, insulation, (shares in) new non-fossil electricity production/storage/interconnect capacity - clear communication about the future: less voucher/person, no more redeemable against Russian natural gas portion of district heating/firewood/pellet subsidies, ... [0] - natural gas electricity generation: 60% efficient - heat pump seasonal coefficient of performance: 3.5 (typical for central Europe, lower for northern Europe, higher for southern Europe) - heat pump efficiency: 3.5 * 60% = 210% - natural gas direct heating efficiency: 95% [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_day

by fy20 4y ago

kazen44 4y ago

to add to this, a ton of houses are not build for heatpump based systems. Most radiator style heating (aka, anything build prior to the 2000's) will not work with a heat pump because the water temperature cannot get high enough to get proper cooling coefficiency. Replacing your entire radiator based system in many houses is not possible without an extreme renovation of the home.

flaviut 4y ago
mini-split systems are incredibly efficient and much easier to install than central heating. I would not expect them to require extreme renovation.

markvdb 4y ago

The fact that you and I have to calculate if it makes sense to switch from natural gas to heat pump heating is an abject policymaking failure at several levels. This should have been abundantly clear months ago, with information campaigns and economic stimuli. Heat pumps are an important part of the solution. Even with 100% natural gas electricity production, they cut energy consumption in less than half [0] Simple measures and clear communication about them are desperately required. What about something like an EU level free energy voucher: - heating: local degree days [1] * 0.5 kWh/person for winter 2022-2023 - non-heating energy consumption: 500 kWh/person voucher for 2022 - voucher redeemable against electric bill, pellets or firewood, district heating bill, insulation, (shares in) new non-fossil electricity production/storage/interconnect capacity - clear communication about the future: less voucher/person, no more redeemable against Russian natural gas portion of district heating/firewood/pellet subsidies, ... [0] - natural gas electricity generation: 60% efficient - heat pump seasonal coefficient of performance: 3.5 (typical for central Europe, lower for northern Europe, higher for southern Europe) - heat pump efficiency: 3.5 * 60% = 210% - natural gas direct heating efficiency: 95% [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_day