> But the point is that you do need an observer capable of perceiving that meaning. Too true....and this is no small feat! (I could tell stories until the sun

> But the point is that you do need an observer capable of perceiving that meaning. Too true....and this is no small feat! (I could tell stories until the sun came up...) > It doesn't make sense that the observer would be the source of the values, but at the same time antithetical to their existence as the OP claimed. Have you taken into consideration what implements "it doesn't make sense"? Are you not running into the very problem you noted in your prior sentence? > Sure, but we then operate on an entirely different basis that precludes the terms such as 'value' that we are currently using. Surely, often and to varying degrees. But then, to what degree is all of this speculation? How might one know? > If the layer is different, then the concepts will be different to. Exactly!! > And if we can't point to those concepts, what exactly are we discussing? Perspectives upon reality? The output of human consciousness? A dream world of some sort?