5 ms·

A lot of people cannot escape. And it often surprises me how many people really don’t want to work in software.

by xwdv 4y ago

dougabug 4y ago
I think a lot of people don’t want to work in software because of the perception or reality of the software development systems that they have been exposed to. If the right tools were invented for them, they might take to it like ducks to water.
- MikePlacid 4y ago
  And then what? Let’s consider the following. 1. There is a limit of complexity that a given person or a given team can deal with happily. Below the threshold work satisfaction is great: “I am solving more and more complicated tasks”, after the threshold a stress eats job satisfaction: “I do not want to open my emails in the morning - what if I will not be able to solve some new problem”. 2. Complexity of each successful product grows until this threshold is reached. The successful product is used by more and more people. The successful product is put as a building stone in more and more complicated projects. 3. Because of 1 and 2 a successful SE is an unhappy person running under a lot of stress. Now let’s see how decreasing the complexity of tools changes the situation. Bad tools: 50% of the complexity of the situation is caused by the tools, 50% - by the complexity of the product. Let’s improve tools twice. Now the tools create only 25% of the original complexity, and since the product causes 50% of the original complexity overall situation improved to 75% total of the original one. The engineer can have a happy life? No so fast. Since the product is successful, the is a great demand for new features. The complexity of the product increases to 75% and the programmer lives under stress again. So, better tools allow to create more complicated, more useful products. But they do not improve - in the long run - the quality of programmers’ lifes. So if a person is not happy with current tools, she will not be happy to be a programmer. Or so it seems to me.
  - dougabug 4y ago
    I am not suggesting that the right tools will allow absolutely anyone to be happy working in any given role in the domain of software development. Scoping is a big part of finding the right roles for people. Maybe a person loves developing prototypes and POCs, or shepherding new systems through phases of adoption prior to reaching massive “scale.” As some people are wont to say, “Everything breaks at scale.” Everybody has a complexity band in which they are comfortable operating. Many problems of high complexity can be decomposed sufficiently that they can be attacked teams of mostly mere mortals, with perhaps some assistance or over-sight from the Anointed Ones. Also, many people have significant abilities to navigate the complexities of, say, differential topology but C++ not so much. And vice versa. How information is presented impacts our ability to cope with complexity.
splistud 4y ago
snerbles 4y ago
Growing up playing with BASIC on an old DOS machine, in my childhood solipsism I had this notion that everyone would love writing code as much as I do and it would be nothing special. In the decades since I've come to believe that actually liking working on software requires a certain sort of...personality that most people just don't have.
- bcatanzaro 4y ago
  That's exactly how I felt. As a kid, I actually planned on a different career in something less fun like chemistry or biology because I thought there's no way people would pay me to write software. Thankfully people informed me I was wrong.
tristor 4y ago
Ironically, I much prefer hardware to software myself, but during college (while studying EE) decided that it was a deadend career path and figured out a way to be software-adjacent without having to be a developer. It worked out pretty well for me so far. The reality is that most people follow incentives, almost nobody works their actual dream job, they work the job that they have the most return for their abilities and investment. HW and SW jobs used to have a lot of overlap from an abilities perspective, but as each has become more specialized that overlap has eroded. A lot of people are choosing to go all-in on software, whether they particularly love it or not, because it is a far better environment to work in.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kazen44 4y ago
  HW is also far more capital intensive to build compared to software, so usually far less companies have to resources to build HW based solutions.
- xwdv 4y ago
  “Passions” aside, I struggle to think of any other career better than software engineering, in terms of return on investment on the effort applied. And with low barrier to entry. I make far more money than a lot of other people while working less, and much more comfortably from my own home. Why do anything else? I’ve concluded people will really subject themselves to a lifetime of grueling pointless work just to avoid some math and science.
- sentinalien 4y ago
  What is your software-adjacent but not software development job?

A lot of people cannot escape. And it often surprises me how many people really don’t want to work in software.

by xwdv 4y ago

A lot of people cannot escape. And it often surprises me how many people really don’t want to work in software.

I think a lot of people don’t want to work in software because of the perception or reality of the software development systems that they have been exposed to. If the right tools were invented for them, they might take to it like ducks to water.

MikePlacid 4y ago
And then what? Let’s consider the following. 1. There is a limit of complexity that a given person or a given team can deal with happily. Below the threshold work satisfaction is great: “I am solving more and more complicated tasks”, after the threshold a stress eats job satisfaction: “I do not want to open my emails in the morning - what if I will not be able to solve some new problem”. 2. Complexity of each successful product grows until this threshold is reached. The successful product is used by more and more people. The successful product is put as a building stone in more and more complicated projects. 3. Because of 1 and 2 a successful SE is an unhappy person running under a lot of stress. Now let’s see how decreasing the complexity of tools changes the situation. Bad tools: 50% of the complexity of the situation is caused by the tools, 50% - by the complexity of the product. Let’s improve tools twice. Now the tools create only 25% of the original complexity, and since the product causes 50% of the original complexity overall situation improved to 75% total of the original one. The engineer can have a happy life? No so fast. Since the product is successful, the is a great demand for new features. The complexity of the product increases to 75% and the programmer lives under stress again. So, better tools allow to create more complicated, more useful products. But they do not improve - in the long run - the quality of programmers’ lifes. So if a person is not happy with current tools, she will not be happy to be a programmer. Or so it seems to me.
- dougabug 4y ago
  I am not suggesting that the right tools will allow absolutely anyone to be happy working in any given role in the domain of software development. Scoping is a big part of finding the right roles for people. Maybe a person loves developing prototypes and POCs, or shepherding new systems through phases of adoption prior to reaching massive “scale.” As some people are wont to say, “Everything breaks at scale.” Everybody has a complexity band in which they are comfortable operating. Many problems of high complexity can be decomposed sufficiently that they can be attacked teams of mostly mere mortals, with perhaps some assistance or over-sight from the Anointed Ones. Also, many people have significant abilities to navigate the complexities of, say, differential topology but C++ not so much. And vice versa. How information is presented impacts our ability to cope with complexity.

splistud 4y ago

snerbles 4y ago

Growing up playing with BASIC on an old DOS machine, in my childhood solipsism I had this notion that everyone would love writing code as much as I do and it would be nothing special. In the decades since I've come to believe that actually liking working on software requires a certain sort of...personality that most people just don't have.

bcatanzaro 4y ago
That's exactly how I felt. As a kid, I actually planned on a different career in something less fun like chemistry or biology because I thought there's no way people would pay me to write software. Thankfully people informed me I was wrong.

tristor 4y ago

Ironically, I much prefer hardware to software myself, but during college (while studying EE) decided that it was a deadend career path and figured out a way to be software-adjacent without having to be a developer. It worked out pretty well for me so far. The reality is that most people follow incentives, almost nobody works their actual dream job, they work the job that they have the most return for their abilities and investment. HW and SW jobs used to have a lot of overlap from an abilities perspective, but as each has become more specialized that overlap has eroded. A lot of people are choosing to go all-in on software, whether they particularly love it or not, because it is a far better environment to work in.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kazen44 4y ago
HW is also far more capital intensive to build compared to software, so usually far less companies have to resources to build HW based solutions.
xwdv 4y ago
“Passions” aside, I struggle to think of any other career better than software engineering, in terms of return on investment on the effort applied. And with low barrier to entry. I make far more money than a lot of other people while working less, and much more comfortably from my own home. Why do anything else? I’ve concluded people will really subject themselves to a lifetime of grueling pointless work just to avoid some math and science.
sentinalien 4y ago
What is your software-adjacent but not software development job?