7 ms·

How the idea of a “transgender contagion” went viral–and caused untold harm

7 points by NoraCodes 4y ago

throwaway23236 4y ago
Transgender person here, when the idea of rapid-onset gender dysphoria came out and started circulating a lot of us were divided on the issue and fell into some camps. 1. This isn't a real thing and was going to be used by doctors as an excuse to parents for not paying attention to their kids. AKA: the parent who neglects their kid, "My child never said this before?!" Meanwhile there child has probably been trans for as long as they can remember. 2. ROGD was not a thing. 3. ROGD is not really a thing, but if it gives people an excuse to explore their gender identity, it could be good thing. 4. It is a thing. 5. It is a thing and you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans, only euphoria with whatever your chosen gender is. Either way, most of us realized that this was going to be bad for us in the future, even if it was nothing.
bell-cot 4y ago
{sigh} Hasn't "Rapid Onset change of Self-Image/Worldview" (following exposure to some new meme) been a thing (especially in young people) for the past ~10,000 years? Probably a similar timeline for Moral Panic about Young People, in older folks.
NoRagrets 4y ago
The third sex/third gender have always existed as a biological and a cultural feature. Most people with inherited cultural memories and strong folk tales/mythology repository know that gender is not binary. Over millennia, society has found ways to include those who are not part of the ‘majority’. However, it is undeniable that in the last quarter century something has certainly happened that does support the ‘contagion’ theory( I don’t like the word as an adjective because it has negative connotations as though gender deviations are a disease and a communicable one). Maybe it’s social media. It seems to be a ‘contagion’ in North America only. No other nation has been captivated more by this issue than American children. It is just..very odd!!! It is an entire generation that has been captured. In America. I do think this indicates a confused coming-of-age for America. After all, US is one of the youngest nations in the world and doesnt have a strong cultural background or collective memory. The aggressive self righteousness, victim hood status that has almost made this into a cult of religion and reckless messy shabby handling of what is a real issue that requires compassionate understanding is jarring. Western abrahamic religions are the majority now and as a non-Christian looking from outside( and I mean no disrespect), when you look at it from the pov of a civilization that is based on a religion whose main worship is of someone who was victimized by being by nailed to the cross, it is almost too easy to join the dots to see why the culture in America…most of whom have abandoned their faith or are only Christian by name…naturally gravitates towards a substitute by recreating self as a victim who is Christ-like. Often, religion isn’t about faith or god. It is about making sense of living on this rock we call Earth. And leaning on faith for support. It is very important as it had given people of our past anchor and some kind of grounding for life. Sure, it has at times been a Faustian Bargain, but that’s when we have to examine the differences between belief, faith and religion. When a society gives up on religion..certainly an artificial construct…it needs to replace it with something else. Historically it has been war or science or spirituality. In the past century, it was communism. They are all ‘religions’ in a loose sense. But what seemed to have happened in America is the adoption of a belief system called ‘victimhood’. This is being preached early on at public schools. And transgender issues is just one sect. Being trans should be celebrated. It has to be a joyful adoption of an inner journey. It is not something one adopts for content creation or social media or rallies. The problem with converting to the cult of victimhood is that once it’s resolved and one’s status is adopted, there is only emptiness when the attention is gone. From when I was a teen, my personal hero was..and still is..the composer Wendy Carlos. At a time when the internet wasn’t so commonplace, I devoured everything about her. David Bowie, Freddie and countless others of my musical favorites flirted at the edge of gender norms. Freedom is being able to live with yourself and being comfortable in your own skin. Needing validation from others for identity is a very painful way to live life. It is the ultimate definition of ‘victim’. So..back to the original article..I don’t think it’s a ‘contagion’. I think it’s the religious fervor of one more budding cult..The Church Of Victimhood.
- throwaway23236 4y ago
  I think what happened was we have reached enough media about transgender people that kids are starting to have an open conversation on what gender actually is and what it means to them. I think it's a good that people can dress and present however they want. I am sure there is some small truth to victimhood complex. It seems most days someone is claiming to be a victim of something and they think because they can claim to be the victim they are in the right. It is a difficult conversation to have and I feel like it will only get worse as America becomes more polarized. It is interesting how we did/do have people like Freddie Mercury, Queen, David Bowie who bent the lines of gender and are seen as generational icons, but in the last 20 years I feel like they would not be able to do what they did. Perhaps the country is being gripped further by religious extremists and there is more outrage to non-traditional views.
- NoraCodes 4y ago
  In general, I largely agree with you, but I don't understand what you mean when you say this: > I don’t think it’s a ‘contagion’. I think it’s the religious fervor of one more budding cult..The Church Of Victimhood. Could you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by this?
  - NoRagrets 4y ago
    All religious movements thrive because of the virulence of thought virii. This is true for Christianity or Veganism or normalization of puberty blockers. Thought virii should be able to replicate really fast to populate host environment to take over and also defeat resistance from competition. Public schools in America are very conducive environments for such transmission. The mythos of western religion is that of a man who is the son of god..first denied and then died because the sinners nailed him to the cross. His divinity is enshrined through resurrection after living a mortal life. This is very powerful and even if westerners abandon religion, it works on a sub conscious level. A victim is not ‘weak’..they are divine and worshipful. In Hindu mythos(I am from India and am Hindu), for example, this would never stick. So it’s definitely a cultural thing altho the notion of a god sacrificing himself for humanity is a common theme throughout the ancient world. In Hinduism, it is our Sun God, the child of Divine Mother Aditi..she left him like a square lump of flesh in the realm between earth and heavens to serve humans. And so Surya burns himself and sacrifices himself so mortals can exist. He is unapproachable who is like a strict father, but he exists for all humanity so we can work through our karmas. He is not a victim of mortal follies. Etc. One has to die to be reborn. You will find parallels in Norse mythology etc. It goes all the way back. But as the youngest and most prevalent religion, Christanity's lapsed congregation take the archetype but abandon the faith. religion is a faith based belief system. if we remove it, something else has to replace vaccum it leaves behind in the collective psyche. communism, science, war, art are all the usual suspects. everywhere, one has to suffer to establish their commitment. currently, it is social justice causes. in america..because we have leapfrogged due to tech and prosperity..and there are no more wars or famines and there is relative prosperity as baseline compared to other countries, we are running out of protected categories of people willing to be nailed at the cross and as a cause to follow for change. The Abrahamic religious archetype requires a victimized god who will resurrect to show truth to the world. It is also the ‘contagion’ in a sense because this needs to replicate fast and dominate the host body of culture/civilization. One has to die to be reborn. But someone has to kill the one first and for that we need a victim and a victimizer. The roles are defined. But who wants to play?
sn0w_crash 4y ago
What’s interesting to me about transgenderism is how much of a potential revenue stream it presents for the big healthcare and pharmaceutical companies. Has anyone tried to quantify this? Besides the expensive transition itself, there’s also an extended period of hormonal therapy. What would a lifelong subscription like this mean for a corporation like Pfizer? It seems like widespread acceptance of transgenderism would present a positive impact on the share price. If they can monetize, say, 15% of the world’s population, how much does that affect their top line revenue?
- throwaway23236 4y ago
  Hello! I just wanted to comment from the views of a transgender person. Transgenderism is not really verbiage we use and seems to be used by mostly anti-trans people, same with the word transgendered. Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) are life long, though they are not super expensive compared to other drugs. Surgery is expensive, though if you have good insurance it is not that bad. Mine costed around 5k USD. Currently only about 2% of the population in the US identifies as transgender and while most of us expect the number to be higher, I doubt we would see anything over 5 percent.
  - sn0w_crash 4y ago
    Thank you this was helpful. I was not aware that HRT is a lifelong commitment. Is there any concern that a major pharmaceutical company is essentially charging a lifetime subscription for you to be who you identify as?
    - NoraCodes 4y ago
      > I was not aware that HRT is a lifelong commitment. To provide a bit of nuance: this is only true if you get surgery that removes your body's ability to produce sex hormones. Every human needs _some_ sex hormones to prevent osteoporosis; that's why non-transgender people sometimes have to take hormones (and, in fact, more non-trans women take estrogen than trans people do!) If someone starts HRT and decides that they hate it, it's generally possible to just... stop. There are some more permanent effects, but they take a while to develop. > Is there any concern that a major pharmaceutical company is essentially charging a lifetime subscription for you to be who you identify as? This is a super interesting question! The obvious solution is that socialized medicine would completely obviate the problem, but that's a huge, sweeping solution, has its own issues, and is unlikely to happen. My perspective is that estrogen, in particular, is really quite cheap. Compared to, for instance, insulin, it's a very safe, abundant, and inexpensive maintenance drug. Testosterone is also pretty cheap, but is harder to access because it's more heavily controlled. In my opinion, it only really becomes a problem when politicians decide to try and remove these drugs from insurance coverage, which we've seen in several places in the United States.

7 points by NoraCodes 4y ago

Transgender person here, when the idea of rapid-onset gender dysphoria came out and started circulating a lot of us were divided on the issue and fell into some camps. 1. This isn't a real thing and was going to be used by doctors as an excuse to parents for not paying attention to their kids. AKA: the parent who neglects their kid, "My child never said this before?!" Meanwhile there child has probably been trans for as long as they can remember. 2. ROGD was not a thing. 3. ROGD is not really a thing, but if it gives people an excuse to explore their gender identity, it could be good thing. 4. It is a thing. 5. It is a thing and you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans, only euphoria with whatever your chosen gender is. Either way, most of us realized that this was going to be bad for us in the future, even if it was nothing.

bell-cot 4y ago

{sigh} Hasn't "Rapid Onset change of Self-Image/Worldview" (following exposure to some new meme) been a thing (especially in young people) for the past ~10,000 years? Probably a similar timeline for Moral Panic about Young People, in older folks.

NoRagrets 4y ago

The third sex/third gender have always existed as a biological and a cultural feature. Most people with inherited cultural memories and strong folk tales/mythology repository know that gender is not binary. Over millennia, society has found ways to include those who are not part of the ‘majority’. However, it is undeniable that in the last quarter century something has certainly happened that does support the ‘contagion’ theory( I don’t like the word as an adjective because it has negative connotations as though gender deviations are a disease and a communicable one). Maybe it’s social media. It seems to be a ‘contagion’ in North America only. No other nation has been captivated more by this issue than American children. It is just..very odd!!! It is an entire generation that has been captured. In America. I do think this indicates a confused coming-of-age for America. After all, US is one of the youngest nations in the world and doesnt have a strong cultural background or collective memory. The aggressive self righteousness, victim hood status that has almost made this into a cult of religion and reckless messy shabby handling of what is a real issue that requires compassionate understanding is jarring. Western abrahamic religions are the majority now and as a non-Christian looking from outside( and I mean no disrespect), when you look at it from the pov of a civilization that is based on a religion whose main worship is of someone who was victimized by being by nailed to the cross, it is almost too easy to join the dots to see why the culture in America…most of whom have abandoned their faith or are only Christian by name…naturally gravitates towards a substitute by recreating self as a victim who is Christ-like. Often, religion isn’t about faith or god. It is about making sense of living on this rock we call Earth. And leaning on faith for support. It is very important as it had given people of our past anchor and some kind of grounding for life. Sure, it has at times been a Faustian Bargain, but that’s when we have to examine the differences between belief, faith and religion. When a society gives up on religion..certainly an artificial construct…it needs to replace it with something else. Historically it has been war or science or spirituality. In the past century, it was communism. They are all ‘religions’ in a loose sense. But what seemed to have happened in America is the adoption of a belief system called ‘victimhood’. This is being preached early on at public schools. And transgender issues is just one sect. Being trans should be celebrated. It has to be a joyful adoption of an inner journey. It is not something one adopts for content creation or social media or rallies. The problem with converting to the cult of victimhood is that once it’s resolved and one’s status is adopted, there is only emptiness when the attention is gone. From when I was a teen, my personal hero was..and still is..the composer Wendy Carlos. At a time when the internet wasn’t so commonplace, I devoured everything about her. David Bowie, Freddie and countless others of my musical favorites flirted at the edge of gender norms. Freedom is being able to live with yourself and being comfortable in your own skin. Needing validation from others for identity is a very painful way to live life. It is the ultimate definition of ‘victim’. So..back to the original article..I don’t think it’s a ‘contagion’. I think it’s the religious fervor of one more budding cult..The Church Of Victimhood.

throwaway23236 4y ago
I think what happened was we have reached enough media about transgender people that kids are starting to have an open conversation on what gender actually is and what it means to them. I think it's a good that people can dress and present however they want. I am sure there is some small truth to victimhood complex. It seems most days someone is claiming to be a victim of something and they think because they can claim to be the victim they are in the right. It is a difficult conversation to have and I feel like it will only get worse as America becomes more polarized. It is interesting how we did/do have people like Freddie Mercury, Queen, David Bowie who bent the lines of gender and are seen as generational icons, but in the last 20 years I feel like they would not be able to do what they did. Perhaps the country is being gripped further by religious extremists and there is more outrage to non-traditional views.
NoraCodes 4y ago
In general, I largely agree with you, but I don't understand what you mean when you say this: > I don’t think it’s a ‘contagion’. I think it’s the religious fervor of one more budding cult..The Church Of Victimhood. Could you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by this?
- NoRagrets 4y ago
  All religious movements thrive because of the virulence of thought virii. This is true for Christianity or Veganism or normalization of puberty blockers. Thought virii should be able to replicate really fast to populate host environment to take over and also defeat resistance from competition. Public schools in America are very conducive environments for such transmission. The mythos of western religion is that of a man who is the son of god..first denied and then died because the sinners nailed him to the cross. His divinity is enshrined through resurrection after living a mortal life. This is very powerful and even if westerners abandon religion, it works on a sub conscious level. A victim is not ‘weak’..they are divine and worshipful. In Hindu mythos(I am from India and am Hindu), for example, this would never stick. So it’s definitely a cultural thing altho the notion of a god sacrificing himself for humanity is a common theme throughout the ancient world. In Hinduism, it is our Sun God, the child of Divine Mother Aditi..she left him like a square lump of flesh in the realm between earth and heavens to serve humans. And so Surya burns himself and sacrifices himself so mortals can exist. He is unapproachable who is like a strict father, but he exists for all humanity so we can work through our karmas. He is not a victim of mortal follies. Etc. One has to die to be reborn. You will find parallels in Norse mythology etc. It goes all the way back. But as the youngest and most prevalent religion, Christanity's lapsed congregation take the archetype but abandon the faith. religion is a faith based belief system. if we remove it, something else has to replace vaccum it leaves behind in the collective psyche. communism, science, war, art are all the usual suspects. everywhere, one has to suffer to establish their commitment. currently, it is social justice causes. in america..because we have leapfrogged due to tech and prosperity..and there are no more wars or famines and there is relative prosperity as baseline compared to other countries, we are running out of protected categories of people willing to be nailed at the cross and as a cause to follow for change. The Abrahamic religious archetype requires a victimized god who will resurrect to show truth to the world. It is also the ‘contagion’ in a sense because this needs to replicate fast and dominate the host body of culture/civilization. One has to die to be reborn. But someone has to kill the one first and for that we need a victim and a victimizer. The roles are defined. But who wants to play?

sn0w_crash 4y ago

What’s interesting to me about transgenderism is how much of a potential revenue stream it presents for the big healthcare and pharmaceutical companies. Has anyone tried to quantify this? Besides the expensive transition itself, there’s also an extended period of hormonal therapy. What would a lifelong subscription like this mean for a corporation like Pfizer? It seems like widespread acceptance of transgenderism would present a positive impact on the share price. If they can monetize, say, 15% of the world’s population, how much does that affect their top line revenue?

throwaway23236 4y ago
Hello! I just wanted to comment from the views of a transgender person. Transgenderism is not really verbiage we use and seems to be used by mostly anti-trans people, same with the word transgendered. Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) are life long, though they are not super expensive compared to other drugs. Surgery is expensive, though if you have good insurance it is not that bad. Mine costed around 5k USD. Currently only about 2% of the population in the US identifies as transgender and while most of us expect the number to be higher, I doubt we would see anything over 5 percent.
- sn0w_crash 4y ago
  Thank you this was helpful. I was not aware that HRT is a lifelong commitment. Is there any concern that a major pharmaceutical company is essentially charging a lifetime subscription for you to be who you identify as?
  - NoraCodes 4y ago
    > I was not aware that HRT is a lifelong commitment. To provide a bit of nuance: this is only true if you get surgery that removes your body's ability to produce sex hormones. Every human needs _some_ sex hormones to prevent osteoporosis; that's why non-transgender people sometimes have to take hormones (and, in fact, more non-trans women take estrogen than trans people do!) If someone starts HRT and decides that they hate it, it's generally possible to just... stop. There are some more permanent effects, but they take a while to develop. > Is there any concern that a major pharmaceutical company is essentially charging a lifetime subscription for you to be who you identify as? This is a super interesting question! The obvious solution is that socialized medicine would completely obviate the problem, but that's a huge, sweeping solution, has its own issues, and is unlikely to happen. My perspective is that estrogen, in particular, is really quite cheap. Compared to, for instance, insulin, it's a very safe, abundant, and inexpensive maintenance drug. Testosterone is also pretty cheap, but is harder to access because it's more heavily controlled. In my opinion, it only really becomes a problem when politicians decide to try and remove these drugs from insurance coverage, which we've seen in several places in the United States.