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The Polish government is being pulled in a few interesting directions. For instance, as of 20 Sep, 2021: Poland must pay a daily penalty of €500,000 ($585,550)

The Polish government is being pulled in a few interesting directions. For instance, as of 20 Sep, 2021: Poland must pay a daily penalty of €500,000 ($585,550) for ignoring a previous order from the European Union’s top court to cease operations at the Turow lignite mine, with its CEO slamming the fine as “bizarre”. On Monday, the EU’s Court of Justice (CJEU) confirmed it was enforcing the financial penalty against Warsaw, stating that Poland must pay the European Commission the daily half-million euro fine until it sees compliance with the earlier order. Judges from the Luxembourg-based court said that the fine is “necessary… to deter that member state from delaying bringing its conduct into line with that order.” https://twitter.com/EUCourtPress/status/1439940814046744581?s=20 https://twitter.com/EUCourtPress/status/1439940814046744581?... The Czech Republic took legal action against Poland in February over activities at the mine, which also sits close to the German border, claiming that it spoiled its citizens’ drinking water. After Warsaw failed to obey the court orders in May to “immediately cease lignite extraction activities at the mine”, Prague asked the court to fine Poland €5 million per day. Poland is widely hated by its neighbors for the existence of this mine. The mine is also in a hilarious geographic location if you look it up on the map. It's BARELY within the country.

buscoquadnary 4y ago
So it looks like this mine produces coal which I am assuming is used for power generation. Don't know if I can blame them for not shutting it down while the message coming from the rest of Europe is that everyone's going to be doing an IRL game of Frostpunk this winter.
- mrcheesebreeze 4y ago
  what do you expect? The european union is widely known for strange and impractical decisions. A few of its members basically drag the rest along for bad decisions and the smaller guy follow because they need that sweet sweet eu money.
  - p_l 4y ago
    In this case it wasn't "strange or impractical" decision - the mine endangered water table on Czech side of the border. Czech Republic protested expansion unless Poland funded some minor work to ensure access to water was unimpeded. The incompetents in the government decided that negotiation, or the way lower than the dien cost of fixing water pipeline for few villages, was beneath them. The ECJ injunction was about stopping the expansion when, as matter spanning the border, the case was taken to court. Once again politicians decided to... Ignore the injunction, which resulted in a fine, and finally the fine was taken from funds that would otherwise go to Poland.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  This was before the Russian energy crisis. Poland refused to give up energy independence.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    that's not really a counter argument since their neighbors except Russia are experiencing energy shortages.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - orangepurple 4y ago
      Think about what you just wrote. Poland cranked up the coal before the war, ensuring consistent energy availability long term. Meanwhile, its neighbors were shutting down nuclear and increasing dependence on unreliable alternative energy sources.
noSyncCloud 4y ago
> The Polish government is being pulled in a few interesting directions. For instance, as of 20 Sep, 2021: > Poland must pay a daily penalty of €500,000 ($585,550) for ignoring a previous order from the European Union’s top court to cease operations at the Turow lignite mine, with its CEO slamming the fine as “bizarre”. > On Monday, the EU’s Court of Justice (CJEU) confirmed it was enforcing the financial penalty against Warsaw, stating that Poland must pay the European Commission the daily half-million euro fine until it sees compliance with the earlier order. > Judges from the Luxembourg-based court said that the fine is “necessary… to deter that member state from delaying bringing its conduct into line with that order.” > https://twitter.com/EUCourtPress/status/1439940814046744581?s=20 https://twitter.com/EUCourtPress/status/1439940814046744581?... > The Czech Republic took legal action against Poland in February over activities at the mine, which also sits close to the German border, claiming that it spoiled its citizens’ drinking water. After Warsaw failed to obey the court orders in May to “immediately cease lignite extraction activities at the mine”, Prague asked the court to fine Poland €5 million per day. > Poland is widely hated by its neighbors for the existence of this mine. The mine is also in a hilarious geographic location if you look it up on the map. It's BARELY within the country. Wow. Turów Brown Coal Mine https://maps.app.goo.gl/3GZHsBabN8rwPqZTA https://maps.app.goo.gl/3GZHsBabN8rwPqZTA
- seiferteric 4y ago
  Seems like maybe that section of the border was specifically carved out to include the mine maybe?
  - greatpatton 4y ago
    When eastern part of Germany was annexed to Poland they used the Oder-Neisse line which run along 2 rivers hence this border. If it was still Germany the border would still make sense.
  - temp-dude-87844 4y ago
    Incredibly, this isn't actually true, though it's tempting to think so from looking at the shapes on the map. The border actually follows the Lusatian Neisse, and then the Oder river, except in the vicinity of the port city of Szczecin; this is the border set by the Allies at the Potsdam Conference after the end of World War 2. The mine on the eastern side of the river became Poland, but it was still supplying a power plant on the west side of the river in East Germany [1]. Later, in 1962, Poland built its own power plant [2]. The Soviets and the Polish wanted to push this border as far west as possible, while the western allies wanted to set it was far northeast as possible to more closely approximate the German-Polish ethnic divide at the time. Various compromise options were proposed, following various rivers, but in the end the western allies agreed to the Soviet proposal. Germans in these territories gained by Poland were expelled. (Meanwhile, the Soviets took the eastern half of previous Poland and made it [3] part of the Soviet Union, specifically the constituent republics of Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania... it was a messy time.) [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Hirschfelde https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Hirschfelde [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tur%C3%B3w_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tur%C3%B3w_Power_Station [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy
dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
> Poland is widely hated by its neighbors I'd say, "the current right-wing government is widely hated by most of its citizens." The mine case was just one of the many cases when they showed their glaring incompetence. I mean, they could have solved the problem a long time ago but by their arrogance decided to ignore it, then the case went to court and they had to do it anyway and pay a nice sum of money. Everybody is angry about this, not just the neighbors, because it's not these incompetent and corrupt puppets that are going to pay but Polish citizens.
- soco 4y ago
  If it was so widely hated how come it got reelected?
  - cromka 4y ago
    They said is, not was
  - mywittyname 4y ago
    There are lots of ways that, even in a democracy, widely hated politicians can remain in power. Gerrymandering, low turnout, voter apathy, split voting, etc. Poland's 2020 election was very controversial, and Duda won by the slimmest of margins.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
    They are the first government that openly buys votes. They focus on their core groups, that is mainly elderly people, and promise them money if they vote for them, at the same time scaring them saying that if they vote for the opposition, this money will be taken away. It is one of the main reason that in spite of universal hatred they still have 30% support, mainly from the elderly.
    - ralusek 4y ago
      If giving financial incentives to voters is buying voters, they're certainly not the first government that openly buys votes.
TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
That's already resolved https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-polish-leaders-reach-deal-end-turow-mine-dispute-2022-02-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-polish-leaders-re... Whole problem was that "big hole" is sucking water from immediate surroundings and turning it into desert, not spoiling the water. Part of the agreement is construction of wall which will prevent that. There are disputes here and there, but I would not use world "hated"
- end_of_line 4y ago
  Czech people hate Polish and that's fact. However, regarding this brown coal mine, czech coal mines are very nearby and these ones are not toxic / dangerous to the environment? Sure, they are and my father took part in installing early warning system on many rivers coming from czech as they are being constantly polluted by them. Of course, when czech do it, it's completely fine
  - dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
    > Czech people hate Polish and that's fact. No, this is just your opinion. Even the new Polish ambassador in Czechia, chosen by the current right-wing government, very openly said that the behavior of the Polish government was stupid and he doesn't understand it, because it could be solved easily straight away. And instead of listening to him, they started to shout "Treason!" all over Twitter and finally they dismissed him. Now again they can't find anyone who would be stupid enough to agree to take on this post: https://www.gov.pl/web/czechy/personel https://www.gov.pl/web/czechy/personel
    - end_of_line 4y ago
      So stop mining damn coal!!! You didn't answer the damn question - how it looks like when German and Czech coal mines keep mining without any issues? Please, explain me this. Germans keep restoring coal mines because of lack of gas and you damn say that's there is some opinion? I've lived more than 18 years less than kilometer to the czech border and my father had to install the early warning system on the river flowing from Czech side because it was being constantly polluted. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C4%9Bl%C3%A1_(p%C5%99%C3%ADtok_Kladsk%C3%A9_Nisy) https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C4%9Bl%C3%A1_(p%C5%99%C3%ADt... So please anwer the damn question and stop saying idiotic statements until you answer it.
jcz_nz 4y ago
Grew up near Turów. Germany had a number of large mining operations right across the border, and started pushing for the closure of Turów just as their shift to NLG ramped up, with arguments around “air quality”. Poland (and others…) warned the successive German governments since about the risks of increasing dependence on Russian gas, and… here we are. The borders were based on rivers, no idea what you’re insinuating there.

buscoquadnary 4y ago

So it looks like this mine produces coal which I am assuming is used for power generation. Don't know if I can blame them for not shutting it down while the message coming from the rest of Europe is that everyone's going to be doing an IRL game of Frostpunk this winter.

mrcheesebreeze 4y ago
what do you expect? The european union is widely known for strange and impractical decisions. A few of its members basically drag the rest along for bad decisions and the smaller guy follow because they need that sweet sweet eu money.
- p_l 4y ago
  In this case it wasn't "strange or impractical" decision - the mine endangered water table on Czech side of the border. Czech Republic protested expansion unless Poland funded some minor work to ensure access to water was unimpeded. The incompetents in the government decided that negotiation, or the way lower than the dien cost of fixing water pipeline for few villages, was beneath them. The ECJ injunction was about stopping the expansion when, as matter spanning the border, the case was taken to court. Once again politicians decided to... Ignore the injunction, which resulted in a fine, and finally the fine was taken from funds that would otherwise go to Poland.
orangepurple 4y ago
This was before the Russian energy crisis. Poland refused to give up energy independence.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  that's not really a counter argument since their neighbors except Russia are experiencing energy shortages.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    Think about what you just wrote. Poland cranked up the coal before the war, ensuring consistent energy availability long term. Meanwhile, its neighbors were shutting down nuclear and increasing dependence on unreliable alternative energy sources.

noSyncCloud 4y ago

> The Polish government is being pulled in a few interesting directions. For instance, as of 20 Sep, 2021: > Poland must pay a daily penalty of €500,000 ($585,550) for ignoring a previous order from the European Union’s top court to cease operations at the Turow lignite mine, with its CEO slamming the fine as “bizarre”. > On Monday, the EU’s Court of Justice (CJEU) confirmed it was enforcing the financial penalty against Warsaw, stating that Poland must pay the European Commission the daily half-million euro fine until it sees compliance with the earlier order. > Judges from the Luxembourg-based court said that the fine is “necessary… to deter that member state from delaying bringing its conduct into line with that order.” > https://twitter.com/EUCourtPress/status/1439940814046744581?s=20 https://twitter.com/EUCourtPress/status/1439940814046744581?... > The Czech Republic took legal action against Poland in February over activities at the mine, which also sits close to the German border, claiming that it spoiled its citizens’ drinking water. After Warsaw failed to obey the court orders in May to “immediately cease lignite extraction activities at the mine”, Prague asked the court to fine Poland €5 million per day. > Poland is widely hated by its neighbors for the existence of this mine. The mine is also in a hilarious geographic location if you look it up on the map. It's BARELY within the country. Wow. Turów Brown Coal Mine https://maps.app.goo.gl/3GZHsBabN8rwPqZTA https://maps.app.goo.gl/3GZHsBabN8rwPqZTA

seiferteric 4y ago
Seems like maybe that section of the border was specifically carved out to include the mine maybe?
- greatpatton 4y ago
  When eastern part of Germany was annexed to Poland they used the Oder-Neisse line which run along 2 rivers hence this border. If it was still Germany the border would still make sense.
- temp-dude-87844 4y ago
  Incredibly, this isn't actually true, though it's tempting to think so from looking at the shapes on the map. The border actually follows the Lusatian Neisse, and then the Oder river, except in the vicinity of the port city of Szczecin; this is the border set by the Allies at the Potsdam Conference after the end of World War 2. The mine on the eastern side of the river became Poland, but it was still supplying a power plant on the west side of the river in East Germany [1]. Later, in 1962, Poland built its own power plant [2]. The Soviets and the Polish wanted to push this border as far west as possible, while the western allies wanted to set it was far northeast as possible to more closely approximate the German-Polish ethnic divide at the time. Various compromise options were proposed, following various rivers, but in the end the western allies agreed to the Soviet proposal. Germans in these territories gained by Poland were expelled. (Meanwhile, the Soviets took the eastern half of previous Poland and made it [3] part of the Soviet Union, specifically the constituent republics of Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania... it was a messy time.) [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Hirschfelde https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Hirschfelde [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tur%C3%B3w_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tur%C3%B3w_Power_Station [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy

dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago

> Poland is widely hated by its neighbors I'd say, "the current right-wing government is widely hated by most of its citizens." The mine case was just one of the many cases when they showed their glaring incompetence. I mean, they could have solved the problem a long time ago but by their arrogance decided to ignore it, then the case went to court and they had to do it anyway and pay a nice sum of money. Everybody is angry about this, not just the neighbors, because it's not these incompetent and corrupt puppets that are going to pay but Polish citizens.

soco 4y ago
If it was so widely hated how come it got reelected?
- cromka 4y ago
  They said is, not was
- mywittyname 4y ago
  There are lots of ways that, even in a democracy, widely hated politicians can remain in power. Gerrymandering, low turnout, voter apathy, split voting, etc. Poland's 2020 election was very controversial, and Duda won by the slimmest of margins.
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  They are the first government that openly buys votes. They focus on their core groups, that is mainly elderly people, and promise them money if they vote for them, at the same time scaring them saying that if they vote for the opposition, this money will be taken away. It is one of the main reason that in spite of universal hatred they still have 30% support, mainly from the elderly.
  - ralusek 4y ago
    If giving financial incentives to voters is buying voters, they're certainly not the first government that openly buys votes.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago

That's already resolved https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-polish-leaders-reach-deal-end-turow-mine-dispute-2022-02-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-polish-leaders-re... Whole problem was that "big hole" is sucking water from immediate surroundings and turning it into desert, not spoiling the water. Part of the agreement is construction of wall which will prevent that. There are disputes here and there, but I would not use world "hated"

end_of_line 4y ago
Czech people hate Polish and that's fact. However, regarding this brown coal mine, czech coal mines are very nearby and these ones are not toxic / dangerous to the environment? Sure, they are and my father took part in installing early warning system on many rivers coming from czech as they are being constantly polluted by them. Of course, when czech do it, it's completely fine
- dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
  > Czech people hate Polish and that's fact. No, this is just your opinion. Even the new Polish ambassador in Czechia, chosen by the current right-wing government, very openly said that the behavior of the Polish government was stupid and he doesn't understand it, because it could be solved easily straight away. And instead of listening to him, they started to shout "Treason!" all over Twitter and finally they dismissed him. Now again they can't find anyone who would be stupid enough to agree to take on this post: https://www.gov.pl/web/czechy/personel https://www.gov.pl/web/czechy/personel
  - end_of_line 4y ago
    So stop mining damn coal!!! You didn't answer the damn question - how it looks like when German and Czech coal mines keep mining without any issues? Please, explain me this. Germans keep restoring coal mines because of lack of gas and you damn say that's there is some opinion? I've lived more than 18 years less than kilometer to the czech border and my father had to install the early warning system on the river flowing from Czech side because it was being constantly polluted. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C4%9Bl%C3%A1_(p%C5%99%C3%ADtok_Kladsk%C3%A9_Nisy) https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C4%9Bl%C3%A1_(p%C5%99%C3%ADt... So please anwer the damn question and stop saying idiotic statements until you answer it.

jcz_nz 4y ago

Grew up near Turów. Germany had a number of large mining operations right across the border, and started pushing for the closure of Turów just as their shift to NLG ramped up, with arguments around “air quality”. Poland (and others…) warned the successive German governments since about the risks of increasing dependence on Russian gas, and… here we are. The borders were based on rivers, no idea what you’re insinuating there.