6 ms·

I think a lot more people would switch to weed if: 1) You couldn't get a DUI at T+1-2 days after smoking. Many states including my own, merely need to show ma

I think a lot more people would switch to weed if: 1) You couldn't get a DUI at T+1-2 days after smoking. Many states including my own, merely need to show marijuana metabolites in your blood to convict for DUI. 2) Gun rights. You're staring down the barrel of 5+ years in jail of the feds find you in possession of weed with a firearm, even if pot is legal in your state. Until those two things are fixed, anyone who depends on driving to keep their job or a firearm to protect their family should have some serious reservations about trading the bar for the dispensary.

giantg2 4y ago
And if you have any record of use, even a medical marijuana card, you are prohibited from purchasing a firearm.
- rpvnwnkl 4y ago
  Are you sure this is true? I was under the impression you can buy firearms legally without background checks at all in much of the USA
  - floren 4y ago
    If you buy person-to-person, yes, in most states. However, just because a felon (or a marijuana user, both are prohibited from owning guns) can buy a gun like that, doesn't mean they won't get in trouble for it if they ever get caught. Edit: form 4473 question 11e asks if you are an unlawful user of drugs such as marijuana and reminds you that it is still federally illegal. You will fill out this form if you purchase a gun from a licensed dealer. Lying on this form is itself a felony.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "I was under the impression you can buy firearms legally without background checks at all in much of the USA" I'm not sure if this is legitimate or if you're trolling. The regulations on background checks can vary depending on the state. Even in states where private sales are legal, you would still be prohibited. Granted enforcing that prohibition comes down to people following the laws, and there's nothing physically forcing them to do so (whether requiring a background check or not), merely punishment after the fact.
- rascul 4y ago
  That varies by state
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Incorrect, the prohibition is federal. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-sept2011-open-letter-marijuana-medicinal-purposes https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-sept2...
    - rascul 4y ago
      Yes, it's prohibited at the federal level, but the state laws on that vary, and the states are generally the ones doing the enforcement. An example, in Mississippi (http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2022/pdf/SB/2001-2099/SB2095SG.pdf http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2022/pdf/SB/2001-...): > A registered qualifying patient or registered designated caregiver shall not be denied the right to own, purchase or possess a firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition based solely on his or her status as a registered qualifying patient or registered designated caregiver. No state or local agency, municipal or county governing authority shall restrict, revoke, suspend or otherwise infringe upon the right of a person to own, purchase or possess a firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition or any related firearms license or certification based solely on his or her status as a registered qualifying patient or registered designated caregiver. Edit: By enforcement, I mean that it's not going to be the FBI or the ATF that knocks on your door if it's discovered you have purchased a firearm with a medical marijuana card but the state, county, or municipal police. The feds might go after the store, though.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        No, the ATF will absolutely go after the individual if you lied on the federal form.
        rascul 4y ago
        The ATF isn't investigating every form to determine if you lied. Nor are the forms always used for firearm purchases.
- quercusa 4y ago
  ATF 4473 21.e: Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  You just lie when filling that form out. Nobody will do anything because if it got turned into a case that made it to the Supreme Court, it would most likely be the end of a large bit of that background check. A lot of that stuff has very questionable constitutionality. And before the downvotes or flames… let’s be completely honest here. Anybody in a recreational state who owns a gun and filled out that forum lied. I mean technically you aren’t supposed to smoke pot in federal land like a national park or forest yet it happens all the time and nobody cares. Not all laws get enforced.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Yes because your case has any likelihood of making it to the Supreme Court where you have an overzealous prosecutor and an overworked public defender.
    - spookthesunset 4y ago
      The odds of lying about marijuana use on that form coming back to haunt me is effectively 0%. I'm not loosing any sleep over it!
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Let’s say you got pulled over for “fitting the description” or because you “looked suspicious” and let’s say that it’s one of the cops “specially trained to detect being under the influence” [1]. Let’s also say that you are legally allowed to carry. Do you really think there is a non zero chance that cops won’t use any excuse to make an arrest seem legit? https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug-whisperer-drivers-arrested-while-stone-cold-sober/85-437061710 https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug... I choose not to trust that the justice system will ever veer in my favor.
        giantg2 4y ago
        The justice system isn't about justice, it's about control, power, and winning.
oaththrowaway 4y ago
This is the dilemma for everyone I know who is interested in switching to cannabis.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  I know several who switched from social alcohol usage to hallucinogenic mushrooms instead and reported positive health outcomes. The legality issue is probably worse not better. But my understanding is that the testing situation is less of a concern.
  - sianemo 4y ago
    You're correct about the testing not being a concern. Testing for psilocybin is very expensive and unreliable. Really only one major drug testing lab in the country will even try to test for psilocybin, and that's because you can, for the right price, try to get them to test for just about anything in a mass spec sample. I won't go so far as to say that nobody can ever successfully test you for psilocybin, but it's about as close to never as you can get.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
Interesting, thanks for the additional information. I assume it will take 60 votes in the US Senate to get moving on #2, so alcohol businesses have no reason to worry.
- notch656a 4y ago
  IANAL, but I think DEA can remove cannabis from scheduling without congress.
giobox 4y ago
While those are of course valid concerns, I don't think it even enters into the decision making process for most when considering booze vs weed in a state with legal dispensaries. The likelihood of either of these happening in states like CA or WA is just so incredibly low that I don't think either of them is stopping all that many who might consider it today. I think there are far stronger cultural forces at play in terms of why people drink or smoke weed rather than concerns about the above. You also still can't buy and consume weed in a bar/cafe style setting as you can booze either anywhere in the US AFAIK, which will also play a large part in this. Drinking alcohol can be a social activity in a bar, and of course booze can be bought in supermarkets etc etc.
nichch 4y ago
I wonder how open and shut those DUI cases really are. In Michigan, they’ve recently discovered their THC test would return positive with the presence of CBD. https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2022/08/michigan-police-say-faulty-marijuana-tests-could-impact-more-than-3250-cases.html https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2022/08/michigan-polic...
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
1 is only an issue because moral panic gave legislators a blank check to write DUI laws that are so immensely broad they would be opposed in any other context. 2 is only an issue because drugs were a moral panic and people hated weed enough to not argue much when it got tied to their gun rights Everyone loses when we cater to lemmings going off half cocked about the moral panic of the minute.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
1 is a serious problem. 2 is self inflicted. As no one depends on a firearm to protect their family, the solution is simple. Just don’t own a firearm.
- scarface74 4y ago
  I’m far away from a gun nut. I don’t see the need to carry and I am more worried about getting shot by the police because I both “fit the description” and “don’t look like I belong” in my own neighborhood than I am a criminal shooting me. But I very much believe in gun ownership in the home - especially properly secured. If someone breaks into my home, they prima facie mean me harm. They will get shot without a second thought or ounce of remorse. What am I suppose to do? Wait on the police to show up?
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Yes, that’s exactly what you should do. Breaking in followed by violence are mostly an imaginary problem anyway. You are far more likely to mistakenly shoot someone who incorrectly thought was breaking in than ever having to defend yourself.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      So I’m suppose to ask someone who broke in my house “do you mean me harm”? There are only two other people who should come in my house unannounced and as soon as they come in the alarm will sound and they know how to turn it off. One of those people sleep next to me. If you’re breaking in, I’m assuming violence. The odds of burglary is 1/36 https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/burglary-statistics/ https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/burglary-statist...
      - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
scarface74 4y ago
It’s even worse cops can arrest you if they think you are impaired. There are specially trained “drug whisperers”. She was sober, no drugs in her system. But she was still arrested. Before you look at the article, take a wild guess what color she was… https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug-whisperer-drivers-arrested-while-stone-cold-sober/85-437061710 https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug...

giantg2 4y ago

And if you have any record of use, even a medical marijuana card, you are prohibited from purchasing a firearm.

rpvnwnkl 4y ago
Are you sure this is true? I was under the impression you can buy firearms legally without background checks at all in much of the USA
- floren 4y ago
  If you buy person-to-person, yes, in most states. However, just because a felon (or a marijuana user, both are prohibited from owning guns) can buy a gun like that, doesn't mean they won't get in trouble for it if they ever get caught. Edit: form 4473 question 11e asks if you are an unlawful user of drugs such as marijuana and reminds you that it is still federally illegal. You will fill out this form if you purchase a gun from a licensed dealer. Lying on this form is itself a felony.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "I was under the impression you can buy firearms legally without background checks at all in much of the USA" I'm not sure if this is legitimate or if you're trolling. The regulations on background checks can vary depending on the state. Even in states where private sales are legal, you would still be prohibited. Granted enforcing that prohibition comes down to people following the laws, and there's nothing physically forcing them to do so (whether requiring a background check or not), merely punishment after the fact.
rascul 4y ago
That varies by state
- giantg2 4y ago
  Incorrect, the prohibition is federal. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-sept2011-open-letter-marijuana-medicinal-purposes https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-sept2...
  - rascul 4y ago
    Yes, it's prohibited at the federal level, but the state laws on that vary, and the states are generally the ones doing the enforcement. An example, in Mississippi (http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2022/pdf/SB/2001-2099/SB2095SG.pdf http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/documents/2022/pdf/SB/2001-...): > A registered qualifying patient or registered designated caregiver shall not be denied the right to own, purchase or possess a firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition based solely on his or her status as a registered qualifying patient or registered designated caregiver. No state or local agency, municipal or county governing authority shall restrict, revoke, suspend or otherwise infringe upon the right of a person to own, purchase or possess a firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition or any related firearms license or certification based solely on his or her status as a registered qualifying patient or registered designated caregiver. Edit: By enforcement, I mean that it's not going to be the FBI or the ATF that knocks on your door if it's discovered you have purchased a firearm with a medical marijuana card but the state, county, or municipal police. The feds might go after the store, though.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      No, the ATF will absolutely go after the individual if you lied on the federal form.
      - rascul 4y ago
        The ATF isn't investigating every form to determine if you lied. Nor are the forms always used for firearm purchases.
quercusa 4y ago
ATF 4473 21.e: Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
spookthesunset 4y ago
You just lie when filling that form out. Nobody will do anything because if it got turned into a case that made it to the Supreme Court, it would most likely be the end of a large bit of that background check. A lot of that stuff has very questionable constitutionality. And before the downvotes or flames… let’s be completely honest here. Anybody in a recreational state who owns a gun and filled out that forum lied. I mean technically you aren’t supposed to smoke pot in federal land like a national park or forest yet it happens all the time and nobody cares. Not all laws get enforced.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Yes because your case has any likelihood of making it to the Supreme Court where you have an overzealous prosecutor and an overworked public defender.
  - spookthesunset 4y ago
    The odds of lying about marijuana use on that form coming back to haunt me is effectively 0%. I'm not loosing any sleep over it!
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Let’s say you got pulled over for “fitting the description” or because you “looked suspicious” and let’s say that it’s one of the cops “specially trained to detect being under the influence” [1]. Let’s also say that you are legally allowed to carry. Do you really think there is a non zero chance that cops won’t use any excuse to make an arrest seem legit? https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug-whisperer-drivers-arrested-while-stone-cold-sober/85-437061710 https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug... I choose not to trust that the justice system will ever veer in my favor.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        The justice system isn't about justice, it's about control, power, and winning.

oaththrowaway 4y ago

This is the dilemma for everyone I know who is interested in switching to cannabis.

galangalalgol 4y ago
I know several who switched from social alcohol usage to hallucinogenic mushrooms instead and reported positive health outcomes. The legality issue is probably worse not better. But my understanding is that the testing situation is less of a concern.
- sianemo 4y ago
  You're correct about the testing not being a concern. Testing for psilocybin is very expensive and unreliable. Really only one major drug testing lab in the country will even try to test for psilocybin, and that's because you can, for the right price, try to get them to test for just about anything in a mass spec sample. I won't go so far as to say that nobody can ever successfully test you for psilocybin, but it's about as close to never as you can get.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

Interesting, thanks for the additional information. I assume it will take 60 votes in the US Senate to get moving on #2, so alcohol businesses have no reason to worry.

notch656a 4y ago
IANAL, but I think DEA can remove cannabis from scheduling without congress.

giobox 4y ago

While those are of course valid concerns, I don't think it even enters into the decision making process for most when considering booze vs weed in a state with legal dispensaries. The likelihood of either of these happening in states like CA or WA is just so incredibly low that I don't think either of them is stopping all that many who might consider it today. I think there are far stronger cultural forces at play in terms of why people drink or smoke weed rather than concerns about the above. You also still can't buy and consume weed in a bar/cafe style setting as you can booze either anywhere in the US AFAIK, which will also play a large part in this. Drinking alcohol can be a social activity in a bar, and of course booze can be bought in supermarkets etc etc.

nichch 4y ago

I wonder how open and shut those DUI cases really are. In Michigan, they’ve recently discovered their THC test would return positive with the presence of CBD. https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2022/08/michigan-police-say-faulty-marijuana-tests-could-impact-more-than-3250-cases.html https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2022/08/michigan-polic...

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

1 is only an issue because moral panic gave legislators a blank check to write DUI laws that are so immensely broad they would be opposed in any other context. 2 is only an issue because drugs were a moral panic and people hated weed enough to not argue much when it got tied to their gun rights Everyone loses when we cater to lemmings going off half cocked about the moral panic of the minute.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

1 is a serious problem. 2 is self inflicted. As no one depends on a firearm to protect their family, the solution is simple. Just don’t own a firearm.

scarface74 4y ago
I’m far away from a gun nut. I don’t see the need to carry and I am more worried about getting shot by the police because I both “fit the description” and “don’t look like I belong” in my own neighborhood than I am a criminal shooting me. But I very much believe in gun ownership in the home - especially properly secured. If someone breaks into my home, they prima facie mean me harm. They will get shot without a second thought or ounce of remorse. What am I suppose to do? Wait on the police to show up?
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Yes, that’s exactly what you should do. Breaking in followed by violence are mostly an imaginary problem anyway. You are far more likely to mistakenly shoot someone who incorrectly thought was breaking in than ever having to defend yourself.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So I’m suppose to ask someone who broke in my house “do you mean me harm”? There are only two other people who should come in my house unannounced and as soon as they come in the alarm will sound and they know how to turn it off. One of those people sleep next to me. If you’re breaking in, I’m assuming violence. The odds of burglary is 1/36 https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/burglary-statistics/ https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/burglary-statist...
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago

scarface74 4y ago

It’s even worse cops can arrest you if they think you are impaired. There are specially trained “drug whisperers”. She was sober, no drugs in her system. But she was still arrested. Before you look at the article, take a wild guess what color she was… https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug-whisperer-drivers-arrested-while-stone-cold-sober/85-437061710 https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug...