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Being against government censorship is "right-wing" now? Interesting...

mrtesthah 4y ago
Can you tell me any progressive (or merely non-right-wing) causes the organization has supported? Because it certainly looks highly partisan to me. I’d hope that any organization concerned with civil liberties would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  > I’d hope that any organization concerned with civil liberties would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way. Funny, because you could say the same about the ACLU, but swap progressive/conservative.
  - mrtesthah 4y ago
    Here’s a list of cases that the ACLU has defended which are in alignment with right wing causes: https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/defending-speech-we-hate https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/defending-speech-w...
    - ceeplusplus 4y ago
      From the ACLU: "a reason to decline taking a free-speech case “the extent to which the speech may assist in advancing the goals of white supremacists or others whose views are contrary to our values." In selecting speech cases to defend, the ACLU will now balance the “impact of the proposed speech and the impact of its suppression.” Factors like the potential effect of the speech on “marginalized communities” and even on “the ACLU’s credibility” could militate against taking a case." [1] [2] [1] https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speech-civil-rights https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speec... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-expression-1529533065 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-exp... Your list looks impressive. But what cases did they choose to not accept that aren't listed there?
      - UIUC_06 4y ago
        Correct. "Our values" used to mean "civil liberties." That's what the "CL" in the name means. Now it apparently means "subscribes to currently trendy theories of social justice."
      - mrtesthah 4y ago
        And yet you still haven’t provided any cases this organization has pursued that would further non-right-wong causes. Here we compare sizable number of cases to… zero.
        ceeplusplus 4y ago
        I never said this organization is neutral. Merely that if you criticize this organization you should also criticize the ACLU for the same lack of neutrality.
      - int_19h 4y ago
        It's well-known that ACLU has changed its freedom of speech stance recently, which greatly disappointed many long-standing members, and definitely had a negative effect on its reputation. However, that was a very specific and rather recent change. ACLU before that change can still be seen as a model organization that threw its weight behind causes regardless of whether they were "left wing" or "right wing", so long as one of its principles were affected.
- UIUC_06 4y ago
  Can you tell me any right-wing causes Media Matters for America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Matters_for_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Matters_for_America) has supported? Because it certainly looks highly partisan to me. I’d hope that any organization concerned with media fairness would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way.
  - mrtesthah 4y ago
    Sounds like a straw man argument. I’m talking about NCLA — not Media Matters. If you agree that NCLA is objectively right-wing in their supported causes, then that’s all that matters here.
    - UIUC_06 4y ago
      "a straw man argument"? I deliberately parodied your words. If you think a non-profit should be non-partisan (a reasonable argument, by the way), then Media Matters should be as well. Correct? Or maybe a vast number of 501(c)(3) organizations support only causes associated with one side or the other, and your criticism is highly selective.
      - mrtesthah 4y ago
        Again, another straw man. Notice I didn’t say all non-profits should be non-partisan. I said that organizations concerned with civil liberties should pursue those rights in a non-partisan manner if their intentions are genuine.
        UIUC_06 4y ago
        That's just your opinion, not any law or regulation. Non-profits are free to adopt whatever slant on civil liberties or any other issue they care about, as long as they don't support political candidates or parties, or otherwise violate the IRS's rules.
        4y ago
- handoflixue 4y ago
  > I’d hope that any organization concerned with civil liberties would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way. That seems naive. LGBTQ organizations are going to naturally bias heavily liberal. The NRA is naturally going to bias heavily conservative. Quite a few of our civil liberties are deeply partisan.

Can you tell me any progressive (or merely non-right-wing) causes the organization has supported? Because it certainly looks highly partisan to me. I’d hope that any organization concerned with civil liberties would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
> I’d hope that any organization concerned with civil liberties would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way. Funny, because you could say the same about the ACLU, but swap progressive/conservative.
- mrtesthah 4y ago
  Here’s a list of cases that the ACLU has defended which are in alignment with right wing causes: https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/defending-speech-we-hate https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/defending-speech-w...
  - ceeplusplus 4y ago
    From the ACLU: "a reason to decline taking a free-speech case “the extent to which the speech may assist in advancing the goals of white supremacists or others whose views are contrary to our values." In selecting speech cases to defend, the ACLU will now balance the “impact of the proposed speech and the impact of its suppression.” Factors like the potential effect of the speech on “marginalized communities” and even on “the ACLU’s credibility” could militate against taking a case." [1] [2] [1] https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speech-civil-rights https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speec... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-expression-1529533065 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-exp... Your list looks impressive. But what cases did they choose to not accept that aren't listed there?
    - UIUC_06 4y ago
      Correct. "Our values" used to mean "civil liberties." That's what the "CL" in the name means. Now it apparently means "subscribes to currently trendy theories of social justice."
    - mrtesthah 4y ago
      And yet you still haven’t provided any cases this organization has pursued that would further non-right-wong causes. Here we compare sizable number of cases to… zero.
      - ceeplusplus 4y ago
        I never said this organization is neutral. Merely that if you criticize this organization you should also criticize the ACLU for the same lack of neutrality.
    - int_19h 4y ago
      It's well-known that ACLU has changed its freedom of speech stance recently, which greatly disappointed many long-standing members, and definitely had a negative effect on its reputation. However, that was a very specific and rather recent change. ACLU before that change can still be seen as a model organization that threw its weight behind causes regardless of whether they were "left wing" or "right wing", so long as one of its principles were affected.
UIUC_06 4y ago
Can you tell me any right-wing causes Media Matters for America (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Matters_for_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Matters_for_America) has supported? Because it certainly looks highly partisan to me. I’d hope that any organization concerned with media fairness would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way.
- mrtesthah 4y ago
  Sounds like a straw man argument. I’m talking about NCLA — not Media Matters. If you agree that NCLA is objectively right-wing in their supported causes, then that’s all that matters here.
  - UIUC_06 4y ago
    "a straw man argument"? I deliberately parodied your words. If you think a non-profit should be non-partisan (a reasonable argument, by the way), then Media Matters should be as well. Correct? Or maybe a vast number of 501(c)(3) organizations support only causes associated with one side or the other, and your criticism is highly selective.
    - mrtesthah 4y ago
      Again, another straw man. Notice I didn’t say all non-profits should be non-partisan. I said that organizations concerned with civil liberties should pursue those rights in a non-partisan manner if their intentions are genuine.
      - UIUC_06 4y ago
        That's just your opinion, not any law or regulation. Non-profits are free to adopt whatever slant on civil liberties or any other issue they care about, as long as they don't support political candidates or parties, or otherwise violate the IRS's rules.
        4y ago
handoflixue 4y ago
> I’d hope that any organization concerned with civil liberties would make the effort to act in a bipartisan, politically neutral way. That seems naive. LGBTQ organizations are going to naturally bias heavily liberal. The NRA is naturally going to bias heavily conservative. Quite a few of our civil liberties are deeply partisan.