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> not some internet forum or any other social setting where groups self-select IRL social groups also self select. Do you hang out with everyone you went to sc

by Chris2048 4y ago

> not some internet forum or any other social setting where groups self-select IRL social groups also self select. Do you hang out with everyone you went to school with? No, there is selection. > where they go to school, what type of activities they do after school and what type of activities and relationships their parents have.. all of which are effected by culture and religion. > strong affinity around the interest for skinny dipping Social interaction with the opposite sex, consumption of alcohol, and other social-meeting-place-determining are others. And if Finns have strong church community (I'm not sure they do) that might be another. The original example suggested social groups would suddenly have 50% Muslim membership, enough to stop a bunch of people who wanted to do something from doing it because it would cause so much strife in their social group. This is unrealistic. Is also the case that young Finning Muslim immigrant aren't necessarily going to influence their native (European/Finnish) counterparts as much as the other way around - maybe more Muslims will try skinny dipping.

rglullis 4y ago
> There is selection. Of course, but the point is exactly that there are plenty of other things that are more important to determine the affinity between peers. > all of which are effected by culture and religion. In the US, maybe so. In Europe, not so much. My experience in Berlin is that even though you might notice some clustering in different demographics (e.g, parts of the city where you see more Turks, others with more Polish, Russian, Greeks, Vietnamese, etc...) this separation is not strict. It might be that in France this segregation is more explicit, but what I hear from my French friends is that their division goes on the lines of "French/Non-French". > The original example suggested social groups would suddenly have 50% Muslim membership. It doesn't have to be 50%. Consider a scenario where muslims are a minority and they are not segregated/ghettoised. So, for every group of 5-6 close friends, you could have one muslim. Whenever one of these groups has to choose for an activity, they would know that by choosing "skinny dipping" they would be excluding their nudity-averse friend. So all these groups would end up looking for something else to do. > enough (...) to cause so much strife in their social group No one is saying about "strife". This is not a polarizing issue! You have someone in your group of friends who has some type of restriction about the activities and there are other alternatives that can appreciated by all, there is no "problem" to be solved. > maybe more Muslims will try skinny dipping. This shows a complete disconnect to reality and/or wishful thinking. Do you know any Muslims? Do you understand how display of modesty is a central part of their beliefs?
- Chris2048 4y ago
  > there are plenty of other things that are more important I think you are not seeing the forest for the trees. skinny dipping aversion isn't a random quirk, it follows from general conservatism. > effected by culture and religion clustering of affinities. > they would be excluding their nudity-averse friend. So all these groups would end up looking for something else to do. or exclude their friend from the activity? The original post made the point: "You've just made 5 people uncomfortable" > No one is saying about "strife". This is not a polarizing issue! "You've just made 5 people uncomfortable". > This shows a complete disconnect to reality and/or wishful thinking. I think the same of you.. > Do you know any Muslims? yep > Do you understand how display of modesty is a central part of their beliefs? I'm sure for some it is.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    > it follows from general conservatism Does it matter? What is your argument? That people can only be friends if they share a very similar outlook in life? > "You've just made 5 people uncomfortable" Aren't you reading a bit too much into this? "Making someone uncomfortable" is not something that needs to lead people distancing themselves from a friendly relationship. > or exclude their friend from the activity? So, in a group of friends who are looking for something to do together, you think that the the more natural course of action is to remove your friend from the circle, instead of finding another activity that can be inclusive. Is this your idea of friendship?
    - Chris2048 4y ago
      > That people can only be friends if they share a very similar outlook in life? No, that they are more likely to, you are adding the hyperbole. > remove your friend from the circle No, you added the scenario "a group of friends who are looking for something to do together". The scenario is "a group of friends want to go to the sauna". I don't know what "remove your friend from the circle" means, but it means the friend who won't want to go, won't be asked. > finding another activity that can be inclusive The activity is exclusive if you're invited. That some don't want to go doesn't mean it isn't.

rglullis 4y ago

> There is selection. Of course, but the point is exactly that there are plenty of other things that are more important to determine the affinity between peers. > all of which are effected by culture and religion. In the US, maybe so. In Europe, not so much. My experience in Berlin is that even though you might notice some clustering in different demographics (e.g, parts of the city where you see more Turks, others with more Polish, Russian, Greeks, Vietnamese, etc...) this separation is not strict. It might be that in France this segregation is more explicit, but what I hear from my French friends is that their division goes on the lines of "French/Non-French". > The original example suggested social groups would suddenly have 50% Muslim membership. It doesn't have to be 50%. Consider a scenario where muslims are a minority and they are not segregated/ghettoised. So, for every group of 5-6 close friends, you could have one muslim. Whenever one of these groups has to choose for an activity, they would know that by choosing "skinny dipping" they would be excluding their nudity-averse friend. So all these groups would end up looking for something else to do. > enough (...) to cause so much strife in their social group No one is saying about "strife". This is not a polarizing issue! You have someone in your group of friends who has some type of restriction about the activities and there are other alternatives that can appreciated by all, there is no "problem" to be solved. > maybe more Muslims will try skinny dipping. This shows a complete disconnect to reality and/or wishful thinking. Do you know any Muslims? Do you understand how display of modesty is a central part of their beliefs?

Chris2048 4y ago
> there are plenty of other things that are more important I think you are not seeing the forest for the trees. skinny dipping aversion isn't a random quirk, it follows from general conservatism. > effected by culture and religion clustering of affinities. > they would be excluding their nudity-averse friend. So all these groups would end up looking for something else to do. or exclude their friend from the activity? The original post made the point: "You've just made 5 people uncomfortable" > No one is saying about "strife". This is not a polarizing issue! "You've just made 5 people uncomfortable". > This shows a complete disconnect to reality and/or wishful thinking. I think the same of you.. > Do you know any Muslims? yep > Do you understand how display of modesty is a central part of their beliefs? I'm sure for some it is.
- rglullis 4y ago
  > it follows from general conservatism Does it matter? What is your argument? That people can only be friends if they share a very similar outlook in life? > "You've just made 5 people uncomfortable" Aren't you reading a bit too much into this? "Making someone uncomfortable" is not something that needs to lead people distancing themselves from a friendly relationship. > or exclude their friend from the activity? So, in a group of friends who are looking for something to do together, you think that the the more natural course of action is to remove your friend from the circle, instead of finding another activity that can be inclusive. Is this your idea of friendship?
  - Chris2048 4y ago
    > That people can only be friends if they share a very similar outlook in life? No, that they are more likely to, you are adding the hyperbole. > remove your friend from the circle No, you added the scenario "a group of friends who are looking for something to do together". The scenario is "a group of friends want to go to the sauna". I don't know what "remove your friend from the circle" means, but it means the friend who won't want to go, won't be asked. > finding another activity that can be inclusive The activity is exclusive if you're invited. That some don't want to go doesn't mean it isn't.