5 ms·

It's kinda useless if you're not already on the train at least once a week making the same trip. Great for commuters to save some money but it doesn't happen op

It's kinda useless if you're not already on the train at least once a week making the same trip. Great for commuters to save some money but it doesn't happen open up any options for cool day trips to explore the country like the German offer.

littlecranky67 4y ago
I think they learned from the German 9€ ticket - people made more trips due to the ticket. With the spanish system, only people that really have to commute long-term (job, uni, etc.) will benefit, without setting an incentive to take "recreational trips".
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  But I thought the whole point of the German thing was to give everyone a little something? This seems very targeted at one specific group (those commuting regularly) that is only a small part of the population affected by the cost increases. In fact train tickets have not increased anyway. It seems a bit strange giving one group so much and the rest nothing.
  - pooper 4y ago
    > It seems a bit strange giving one group so much and the rest nothing. I think it makes sense if we can encourage people who would have otherwise traveled by car to try out the train. I mean that's the whole point, right? If we want to "give everyone a little something", we should increase capacity as well.
  - mtmail 4y ago
    > It seems a bit strange giving one group so much and the rest nothing. In parallel there was a 0.30 Euro subsidy on petrol ("Tankrabatt") and a 300 Euro one-off payment for employees (in September I think). Plus subsidy on gas for heating is being discussed. Taken together a lot was given, not only to one group.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Yes I meant the Spanish discount, not the German one.
- cmarschner 4y ago
  In the end it only makes sense if you replace trips that are more carbon-heavy - and the evidence that this happened in the 3 months seem pretty weak. If you create additional mobility then everybody loses. People should have an incentive to do fewer car and plane trips - and maybe substitute some of them for train trips since they are the least damaging option. Which leaves a question of the long-term effect - will people who typically had not considered taking a train for, say, going on vacation will do so next year?
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    By extendion, they need disincentives to make any trips, trains included. The most carbon-neutral trip is the one never made. Tourism, long trips for no better reason than recreation, can never be made completely green.
    - ben_w 4y ago
      "Never" is a long time.
    - Swenrekcah 4y ago
      It can be made close enough by train travel. There are other factors to consider than just carbon emissions, the most carbon reducing action would simply be to wipe out humanity but we probably don’t want that.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      > The most carbon-neutral trip is the one never made The most carbon-neutral consumer is 6 feet under. Or, better yet, processed into biogas. I don't think this is the kind of logic we should be engaging in
  - jkukul 4y ago
    > In the end it only makes sense if you replace trips that are more carbon-heavy - and the evidence that this happened in the 3 months seem pretty weak I don't think this measure is primarily meant to fight carbon emissions. I think the primary goal is to help people who were mostly affected by inflation, i.e. lower and middle class so people who take regular commuter trains.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Macha 4y ago
  Wasn't the german goal to replace car (and therefore oil) usage in general? I'm not sure someone taking a train to the beach town instead of driving there because the train was cheap is a failure in terms of the policy goals?
solarexplorer 4y ago
IIRC you don‘t have to do 16 trips in four months. If do fewer trips, you have to pay 10€ once (or 20€ for the mid range trips). That is still a considerable discount.
alastairp 4y ago
The tickets are definitely pitched as "for regular commuters", but I'm going to take advantage of them for getting further out of Barcelona to cycle. I've spent 70€ on 4 tickets and expect that I'll receive refunds for 2 of them (by travelling at least 16 times on a ticket). A return ticket to a location 2 hours away ends up being close to 15€, so even if I get no refunds due to not travelling enough, it's still economical to buy the tickets if I'm planning on using them 2-3 times a month.
- durkie 4y ago
  Where are your favorite places to ride near Barcelona?
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Not a ton of experience biking in the region, but I rode from Barcelona to Montserrat and it is quite lovely. There are a few sections where you're on a road busier with cars than one would like, but I've found Spanish drivers to be fairly respectful of bikers*. It was about 3.5h there, 2.5h back, with a nice 600m climb up the mountain at the end of the trip. The views up there are simply stunning. * Fun story, I rode 1500 miles throughout Spain ~10 years ago, and had not a single bad experience with a motorist. When I got back to my home in NY state, literally on my first bike ride back, within 2 miles of my starting point, a man in a truck threw a beer can at me.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Such things are very regional yeah. I live in Spain and there drivers are respectful because cyclists have nowhere else to go. In the Netherlands where I'm from we frown on cyclists on the road because there's excellent cycle lanes they should be using. The problem is the "sporty" types that think they're too good for those and use the main road instead.

littlecranky67 4y ago

I think they learned from the German 9€ ticket - people made more trips due to the ticket. With the spanish system, only people that really have to commute long-term (job, uni, etc.) will benefit, without setting an incentive to take "recreational trips".

GekkePrutser 4y ago
But I thought the whole point of the German thing was to give everyone a little something? This seems very targeted at one specific group (those commuting regularly) that is only a small part of the population affected by the cost increases. In fact train tickets have not increased anyway. It seems a bit strange giving one group so much and the rest nothing.
- pooper 4y ago
  > It seems a bit strange giving one group so much and the rest nothing. I think it makes sense if we can encourage people who would have otherwise traveled by car to try out the train. I mean that's the whole point, right? If we want to "give everyone a little something", we should increase capacity as well.
- mtmail 4y ago
  > It seems a bit strange giving one group so much and the rest nothing. In parallel there was a 0.30 Euro subsidy on petrol ("Tankrabatt") and a 300 Euro one-off payment for employees (in September I think). Plus subsidy on gas for heating is being discussed. Taken together a lot was given, not only to one group.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Yes I meant the Spanish discount, not the German one.
cmarschner 4y ago
In the end it only makes sense if you replace trips that are more carbon-heavy - and the evidence that this happened in the 3 months seem pretty weak. If you create additional mobility then everybody loses. People should have an incentive to do fewer car and plane trips - and maybe substitute some of them for train trips since they are the least damaging option. Which leaves a question of the long-term effect - will people who typically had not considered taking a train for, say, going on vacation will do so next year?
- sandworm101 4y ago
  By extendion, they need disincentives to make any trips, trains included. The most carbon-neutral trip is the one never made. Tourism, long trips for no better reason than recreation, can never be made completely green.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    "Never" is a long time.
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    It can be made close enough by train travel. There are other factors to consider than just carbon emissions, the most carbon reducing action would simply be to wipe out humanity but we probably don’t want that.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > The most carbon-neutral trip is the one never made The most carbon-neutral consumer is 6 feet under. Or, better yet, processed into biogas. I don't think this is the kind of logic we should be engaging in
- jkukul 4y ago
  > In the end it only makes sense if you replace trips that are more carbon-heavy - and the evidence that this happened in the 3 months seem pretty weak I don't think this measure is primarily meant to fight carbon emissions. I think the primary goal is to help people who were mostly affected by inflation, i.e. lower and middle class so people who take regular commuter trains.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Macha 4y ago
Wasn't the german goal to replace car (and therefore oil) usage in general? I'm not sure someone taking a train to the beach town instead of driving there because the train was cheap is a failure in terms of the policy goals?

solarexplorer 4y ago

IIRC you don‘t have to do 16 trips in four months. If do fewer trips, you have to pay 10€ once (or 20€ for the mid range trips). That is still a considerable discount.

alastairp 4y ago

The tickets are definitely pitched as "for regular commuters", but I'm going to take advantage of them for getting further out of Barcelona to cycle. I've spent 70€ on 4 tickets and expect that I'll receive refunds for 2 of them (by travelling at least 16 times on a ticket). A return ticket to a location 2 hours away ends up being close to 15€, so even if I get no refunds due to not travelling enough, it's still economical to buy the tickets if I'm planning on using them 2-3 times a month.

durkie 4y ago
Where are your favorite places to ride near Barcelona?
- googlryas 4y ago
  Not a ton of experience biking in the region, but I rode from Barcelona to Montserrat and it is quite lovely. There are a few sections where you're on a road busier with cars than one would like, but I've found Spanish drivers to be fairly respectful of bikers*. It was about 3.5h there, 2.5h back, with a nice 600m climb up the mountain at the end of the trip. The views up there are simply stunning. * Fun story, I rode 1500 miles throughout Spain ~10 years ago, and had not a single bad experience with a motorist. When I got back to my home in NY state, literally on my first bike ride back, within 2 miles of my starting point, a man in a truck threw a beer can at me.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Such things are very regional yeah. I live in Spain and there drivers are respectful because cyclists have nowhere else to go. In the Netherlands where I'm from we frown on cyclists on the road because there's excellent cycle lanes they should be using. The problem is the "sporty" types that think they're too good for those and use the main road instead.