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You literally just gave no reasons. Edit: So to clarify, you could be saying "there is something better about Apple" or "Apple people are complete suckers." Wh

by jrm4 4y ago

You literally just gave no reasons. Edit: So to clarify, you could be saying "there is something better about Apple" or "Apple people are complete suckers." Which is it?

ethanbond 4y ago
I'm saying that creating a premium product cannot be distilled down to one feature/dimension/characteristic and it's a fruitless task to just ask people on the internet to do it for you. 1) Many people can't specifically identify and articulate which characteristics lead them to prefer one product over another. 2) Many people have different reasons for preferring the same product over the same alternative 3) An individual is probably preferring a set of characteristics that overdetermines their preference (i.e. if you remove one of the set, their preference still doesn't change) and the set is comprised of individually not-very-important characteristics. Would you be confused if someone said that they prefer a Porsche Panamera over a Honda Civic? They could probably say they prefer the size of the Panamera, but that's clearly not sufficient explanation because they also would prefer it over a CR-V. Then they'd say the materials used are better. But would they now accept a CR-V with the interior redone in ultra-premium materials? Very unlikely. The reality is that their preference is a complex mixture of things that they struggle to even detect never mind articulate. "Good product companies" get this, and bad product companies just stare in befuddlement at why their CR-V with fancy leather isn't outcompeting Porsche. Of course when you ask someone to explain their preference, they cannot. They don't have the language to describe it! It's a silly question to even ask!
- jrm4 4y ago
  So..Suckers. Got it.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Sure! I hope "other people are idiots" is a helpful model for you. I find much more value in the view that a great product is the confluence of millions of tiny, apparently inconsequential decisions. It seems completely believable that if the product developers are successful, I as the consumer would struggle to reverse engineer what all of those decisions are by looking at the finished product.
    - jrm4 4y ago
      No. seriously -- your absolutely content-free justification of a great product implies, e.g. that crack dealers are great developers of a great product. I legitimately find this sort of after the fact justification not just bad, but dangerous.
      - ethanbond 4y ago
        But it's not after the fact. Go talk to someone at Apple and they will tell you before the fact how much work goes into the tiny little details. But you're asking users why, and the answer is how could they possibly know? Either everyone is an idiot and you're somehow not hitting a trillion dollar market cap with that knowledge, or the company is doing something very subtle that adds up in ways that are not articulable by laypeople [0]. Not sure what analogy you're getting at with crack. Separate from the moral valence you're trying to ascribe to it, of course it's a great product in some respects. Though I'd suggest that explaining why a single molecule that interacts ~directly with the brain's reward system is a "good product" is much easier than something like a smartphone or car. [0] One example I happen to know about had to do with the really complex machining that was required on one of the iPhones (forget which) to make the bevel around the screen bezel wrap around the corner in a way that felt (but was not actually) "flat" relative to the straight-line parts of the bevel. Without this multi-axis beveling, which was apparently a complete nightmare to figure out how to manufacture, the corners would've "seemed" sharper. Does that mean someone would pick up an iPhone and remark how nice it is that the corner bevel rotates another 3 degrees or whatever? Obviously not. Does that mean this was a complete waste of time? No one knows. Apple's market cap, margins, adoption, and consumer loyalty point toward them doing something uniquely right though.
        jrm4 4y ago
        Views like the ones you are expressing are dangerous and bad for the world, and I hope you grow to understand that. The ability that you have to equate affinity/addiction to "good/quality" is downright creepy, and sadly symptomatic of literally the worst bits of all of technology. If you're operating in real life like this, please stop.

by jrm4 4y ago

You literally just gave no reasons. Edit: So to clarify, you could be saying "there is something better about Apple" or "Apple people are complete suckers." Which is it?

ethanbond 4y ago

I'm saying that creating a premium product cannot be distilled down to one feature/dimension/characteristic and it's a fruitless task to just ask people on the internet to do it for you. 1) Many people can't specifically identify and articulate which characteristics lead them to prefer one product over another. 2) Many people have different reasons for preferring the same product over the same alternative 3) An individual is probably preferring a set of characteristics that overdetermines their preference (i.e. if you remove one of the set, their preference still doesn't change) and the set is comprised of individually not-very-important characteristics. Would you be confused if someone said that they prefer a Porsche Panamera over a Honda Civic? They could probably say they prefer the size of the Panamera, but that's clearly not sufficient explanation because they also would prefer it over a CR-V. Then they'd say the materials used are better. But would they now accept a CR-V with the interior redone in ultra-premium materials? Very unlikely. The reality is that their preference is a complex mixture of things that they struggle to even detect never mind articulate. "Good product companies" get this, and bad product companies just stare in befuddlement at why their CR-V with fancy leather isn't outcompeting Porsche. Of course when you ask someone to explain their preference, they cannot. They don't have the language to describe it! It's a silly question to even ask!

jrm4 4y ago
So..Suckers. Got it.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Sure! I hope "other people are idiots" is a helpful model for you. I find much more value in the view that a great product is the confluence of millions of tiny, apparently inconsequential decisions. It seems completely believable that if the product developers are successful, I as the consumer would struggle to reverse engineer what all of those decisions are by looking at the finished product.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    No. seriously -- your absolutely content-free justification of a great product implies, e.g. that crack dealers are great developers of a great product. I legitimately find this sort of after the fact justification not just bad, but dangerous.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      But it's not after the fact. Go talk to someone at Apple and they will tell you before the fact how much work goes into the tiny little details. But you're asking users why, and the answer is how could they possibly know? Either everyone is an idiot and you're somehow not hitting a trillion dollar market cap with that knowledge, or the company is doing something very subtle that adds up in ways that are not articulable by laypeople [0]. Not sure what analogy you're getting at with crack. Separate from the moral valence you're trying to ascribe to it, of course it's a great product in some respects. Though I'd suggest that explaining why a single molecule that interacts ~directly with the brain's reward system is a "good product" is much easier than something like a smartphone or car. [0] One example I happen to know about had to do with the really complex machining that was required on one of the iPhones (forget which) to make the bevel around the screen bezel wrap around the corner in a way that felt (but was not actually) "flat" relative to the straight-line parts of the bevel. Without this multi-axis beveling, which was apparently a complete nightmare to figure out how to manufacture, the corners would've "seemed" sharper. Does that mean someone would pick up an iPhone and remark how nice it is that the corner bevel rotates another 3 degrees or whatever? Obviously not. Does that mean this was a complete waste of time? No one knows. Apple's market cap, margins, adoption, and consumer loyalty point toward them doing something uniquely right though.
      - jrm4 4y ago
        Views like the ones you are expressing are dangerous and bad for the world, and I hope you grow to understand that. The ability that you have to equate affinity/addiction to "good/quality" is downright creepy, and sadly symptomatic of literally the worst bits of all of technology. If you're operating in real life like this, please stop.