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California should be asking people not to buy EVs at all! They should be massively investing in public transport and active transport. But no, the obsession w

California should be asking people not to buy EVs at all! They should be massively investing in public transport and active transport. But no, the obsession with private automobile ownership will continue to damn us all.

vsareto 4y ago
If we can't afford houses, we'll at least need a car.
zamfi 4y ago
The state is doing a lot on all three of these fronts. Public transport is hard because construction costs are absurdly high in areas of high density, there aren’t enough people in areas with low density, and asinine restrictive zoning prevents increasing density over time. But it is happening. In the meantime, people love their cars, and will continue to drive them. Banning cars entirely would disproportionately affect folks who have to commute long distances to afford housing, not great. So might as well mandate that the fleet turn over to something less harmful to the planet’s ability to support our way of life.
papercrane 4y ago
Assuming the Governor signs the bill they will be giving a $1000 tax credit for people who don't own a car. They put an income cap on it though, so I doubt it will have much impact. https://www.phillytrib.com/california-wants-to-give-residents-1-000-not-to-have-a-car/article_485650a6-69f7-5aa1-b133-453cfb57a7d8.html https://www.phillytrib.com/california-wants-to-give-resident...
- generalizations 4y ago
  I seriously doubt that $1000 is worth the inconvenience of not having a car. How often do you leave the city? Those car rentals add up fast.
  - papercrane 4y ago
    It depends on individual circumstances. A thousand dollars plus no car payment, parking, insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs vs. public transit, occasional Uber and car rental might be attractive for some. It would've been much more effective though if they had gone with the original plan of $2,500 and no income limit.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    > How often do you leave the city? Effectively never. When I do it's usually with someone who has a car so we go in theirs.
- r00fus 4y ago
  This is huge for my parents. They would essentially get $1k/year bonus.
JaceLightning 4y ago
The "obsession" is a practicality. I lived for 7 years without a car in a big city. I finally moved to a place where cars were practical and will never go back. No bus is point to point. Generally you need to walk, wait for the bus, take the bus (which is slower than driving because it makes multiple stops), get off the bus, wait for the next bus, and then repeat two or three times. It can turn in 30 minute journey into a 90 minute one. Then you have to pay for the driver and the gas. If you live in a place where it is freezing cold or constantly raining that 15 minute walk to or from the bus could be a nightmare. What about transporting things, like groceries? I couldn't carry both a gallon of milk and hardly anything else, let alone any small appliance. I relied heavily on Amazon and peapod, which is really wasteful and expensive. We need to stop this obsession with public transportation.
- r00fus 4y ago
  > The "obsession" is a practicality. That's the point, it's practical because it was designed that way. Intentionally. If you've lived in Europe, where mixed developments are the default, then cars are actually only necessary some of the times. My cousins in France live literally 2 doors down from a boulangerie and get fresh out of the oven pastries in 5 min. The ideal is that instead of using the car, you use your feet and it's even faster.
  - Ferret7446 4y ago
    You can't beat physics. Sure, you can design things so that key facilities and services can be reached on foot, but you simply can't provide the same facilities that could be reached in a car radius vs walking radius.
    - r00fus 4y ago
      Sure you can. I've seen it done numerous ways. France is a good example (above) - not only is the boulangerie 2 doors down, the others are literally within 10m away by walk. In Hong Kong, some of my friends lived in a tower where the grocery, post office, etc were all on the basement floor (and the elevators were unbelievably fast) - I swear it was the closest thing I'd ever seen in this world to Foundation/Trantor. When thinking about a car, you also have to chalk-in parking and traffic. I bet you most people spend more than 10m door to door to their grocery store.

vsareto 4y ago

If we can't afford houses, we'll at least need a car.

zamfi 4y ago

The state is doing a lot on all three of these fronts. Public transport is hard because construction costs are absurdly high in areas of high density, there aren’t enough people in areas with low density, and asinine restrictive zoning prevents increasing density over time. But it is happening. In the meantime, people love their cars, and will continue to drive them. Banning cars entirely would disproportionately affect folks who have to commute long distances to afford housing, not great. So might as well mandate that the fleet turn over to something less harmful to the planet’s ability to support our way of life.

papercrane 4y ago

Assuming the Governor signs the bill they will be giving a $1000 tax credit for people who don't own a car. They put an income cap on it though, so I doubt it will have much impact. https://www.phillytrib.com/california-wants-to-give-residents-1-000-not-to-have-a-car/article_485650a6-69f7-5aa1-b133-453cfb57a7d8.html https://www.phillytrib.com/california-wants-to-give-resident...

generalizations 4y ago
I seriously doubt that $1000 is worth the inconvenience of not having a car. How often do you leave the city? Those car rentals add up fast.
- papercrane 4y ago
  It depends on individual circumstances. A thousand dollars plus no car payment, parking, insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs vs. public transit, occasional Uber and car rental might be attractive for some. It would've been much more effective though if they had gone with the original plan of $2,500 and no income limit.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  > How often do you leave the city? Effectively never. When I do it's usually with someone who has a car so we go in theirs.
r00fus 4y ago
This is huge for my parents. They would essentially get $1k/year bonus.

JaceLightning 4y ago

The "obsession" is a practicality. I lived for 7 years without a car in a big city. I finally moved to a place where cars were practical and will never go back. No bus is point to point. Generally you need to walk, wait for the bus, take the bus (which is slower than driving because it makes multiple stops), get off the bus, wait for the next bus, and then repeat two or three times. It can turn in 30 minute journey into a 90 minute one. Then you have to pay for the driver and the gas. If you live in a place where it is freezing cold or constantly raining that 15 minute walk to or from the bus could be a nightmare. What about transporting things, like groceries? I couldn't carry both a gallon of milk and hardly anything else, let alone any small appliance. I relied heavily on Amazon and peapod, which is really wasteful and expensive. We need to stop this obsession with public transportation.

r00fus 4y ago
> The "obsession" is a practicality. That's the point, it's practical because it was designed that way. Intentionally. If you've lived in Europe, where mixed developments are the default, then cars are actually only necessary some of the times. My cousins in France live literally 2 doors down from a boulangerie and get fresh out of the oven pastries in 5 min. The ideal is that instead of using the car, you use your feet and it's even faster.
- Ferret7446 4y ago
  You can't beat physics. Sure, you can design things so that key facilities and services can be reached on foot, but you simply can't provide the same facilities that could be reached in a car radius vs walking radius.
  - r00fus 4y ago
    Sure you can. I've seen it done numerous ways. France is a good example (above) - not only is the boulangerie 2 doors down, the others are literally within 10m away by walk. In Hong Kong, some of my friends lived in a tower where the grocery, post office, etc were all on the basement floor (and the elevators were unbelievably fast) - I swear it was the closest thing I'd ever seen in this world to Foundation/Trantor. When thinking about a car, you also have to chalk-in parking and traffic. I bet you most people spend more than 10m door to door to their grocery store.