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No it isn't, it's not like bosses suddenly got worse and then this trend took off. HBR is such a rag. Quiet quitting is the realization that if you work hard a

No it isn't, it's not like bosses suddenly got worse and then this trend took off. HBR is such a rag. Quiet quitting is the realization that if you work hard and push yourself in an employee role you're a sucker. And its depressing. I wish I could find a team that was pushing themselves hard because they cared and getting their share of the profits. I miss feeling inspired without the spectre of being exploited. Ultimately though the management solution to quiet quitting is pretty straightforward: raise the bar with concrete performance expectations.

sys_64738 4y ago
> Quiet quitting is the realization that if you work hard and push yourself in an employee role you're a sucker. People also push hard for self-development or self-interest. Learning an interesting work item can be rewarding and useful in the long run so consume the opportunity for self-growth.
danaris 4y ago
That doesn't mean that "quiet quitting" (which is a slight variation on the much older concept of "work-to-rule") isn't about bad bosses. It's been my experience that if you're burning out, 95% of the time, it's because your boss (or their bosses, somewhere up the chain) is a bad manager in one form or another, most commonly expecting too much work for the time allotted.
brianmcc 4y ago
>> Quiet quitting is the realization that if you work hard and push yourself in an employee role you're a sucker. Not entirely, there are bosses and orgs which genuinely reward effort, and where the cost/benefits of extra endeavour can be fairly reliably assessed. Sadly that is of course not a universal state of affairs, or even a particularly common one. But it is out there! Maybe there has been a general worsening of the "management class"? Maybe too many people have been getting promoted beyond their talents and interests? Poor managers who don't recognise talent and effort, or develop their teams' skills and duties, are just that, poor managers, and perhaps the corporate world has collectively taken its eye off the ball and allowed standards to slip. And maybe this all becomes horribly normalised to the point where a good manager is somehow an exception, and over time we have now hit a tipping point where millions of otherwise good, capable, engaged employess have been pushed too far? To be clear I think good managers are a true boon to a business - reducing attrition, increasing productivity - and leaders should be laser-focused on inculcating good, strong management practice, explicitly, not by crossing its fingers and hoping.
yboris 4y ago
> because they cared and getting their share of the profits I think many do not feel the profits are shared equitably. Furthermore, many companies, despite providing enough value to the world to make money, aren't doing something good (consider a media giant making money off ads while pushing low quality content). Working in a company like that isn't inspiring - you do what's needed, but it's hard to see yourself as making the world a better place. I humbly recommend people in those scenarios consider looking into something more meaningful. A good place to start is this job board that focuses on companies that are trying to make the world a better place: https://80000hours.org/job-board/ https://80000hours.org/job-board/
- q-big 4y ago
  > Working in a company like that isn't inspiring - you do what's needed, but it's hard to see yourself as making the world a better place. There are enough companies that have a potential to make the world a better place. Problem: these jobs typically don't pay well. Be honest: it is simply much more comfortable to earn more money and work minimally (quiet quitting) so that the work makes you less exhausted. This way, you can even find a justification for your behavior by claiming that your company does not make the world a better place.
  - yboris 4y ago
    In my case I've joined Giving What We Can - a community of people giving at least 10% of their pre-tax income to the most cost-effective charities they can find (see GiveWell.org). Plus I help out with web dev pro-bono to some initiatives that I think are making the world better. It's always easier to be selfish; finding noble reasons to not put in good effort at work is probably easier than recognizing you might be making those around you pick up your slack. If you're "quiet quitting" and have lots of free time at work, you may as well help the people around you (e.g. be a good mentor).
treeman79 4y ago
Compare a Taco Bell worker with a Chick fil A worker. One does the absolute minimum. The other consistently goes above and beyond. Both are fast food workers. All else being equal, I would much rather hire a former Chick-fil-A worker then just about any fast food worker. I have a list of former co-workers people that know they can call me up an I will either hire them or give them glowing recommendations. Attitude is the major drive.

sys_64738 4y ago

> Quiet quitting is the realization that if you work hard and push yourself in an employee role you're a sucker. People also push hard for self-development or self-interest. Learning an interesting work item can be rewarding and useful in the long run so consume the opportunity for self-growth.

danaris 4y ago

That doesn't mean that "quiet quitting" (which is a slight variation on the much older concept of "work-to-rule") isn't about bad bosses. It's been my experience that if you're burning out, 95% of the time, it's because your boss (or their bosses, somewhere up the chain) is a bad manager in one form or another, most commonly expecting too much work for the time allotted.

brianmcc 4y ago

>> Quiet quitting is the realization that if you work hard and push yourself in an employee role you're a sucker. Not entirely, there are bosses and orgs which genuinely reward effort, and where the cost/benefits of extra endeavour can be fairly reliably assessed. Sadly that is of course not a universal state of affairs, or even a particularly common one. But it is out there! Maybe there has been a general worsening of the "management class"? Maybe too many people have been getting promoted beyond their talents and interests? Poor managers who don't recognise talent and effort, or develop their teams' skills and duties, are just that, poor managers, and perhaps the corporate world has collectively taken its eye off the ball and allowed standards to slip. And maybe this all becomes horribly normalised to the point where a good manager is somehow an exception, and over time we have now hit a tipping point where millions of otherwise good, capable, engaged employess have been pushed too far? To be clear I think good managers are a true boon to a business - reducing attrition, increasing productivity - and leaders should be laser-focused on inculcating good, strong management practice, explicitly, not by crossing its fingers and hoping.

yboris 4y ago

> because they cared and getting their share of the profits I think many do not feel the profits are shared equitably. Furthermore, many companies, despite providing enough value to the world to make money, aren't doing something good (consider a media giant making money off ads while pushing low quality content). Working in a company like that isn't inspiring - you do what's needed, but it's hard to see yourself as making the world a better place. I humbly recommend people in those scenarios consider looking into something more meaningful. A good place to start is this job board that focuses on companies that are trying to make the world a better place: https://80000hours.org/job-board/ https://80000hours.org/job-board/

q-big 4y ago
> Working in a company like that isn't inspiring - you do what's needed, but it's hard to see yourself as making the world a better place. There are enough companies that have a potential to make the world a better place. Problem: these jobs typically don't pay well. Be honest: it is simply much more comfortable to earn more money and work minimally (quiet quitting) so that the work makes you less exhausted. This way, you can even find a justification for your behavior by claiming that your company does not make the world a better place.
- yboris 4y ago
  In my case I've joined Giving What We Can - a community of people giving at least 10% of their pre-tax income to the most cost-effective charities they can find (see GiveWell.org). Plus I help out with web dev pro-bono to some initiatives that I think are making the world better. It's always easier to be selfish; finding noble reasons to not put in good effort at work is probably easier than recognizing you might be making those around you pick up your slack. If you're "quiet quitting" and have lots of free time at work, you may as well help the people around you (e.g. be a good mentor).

treeman79 4y ago

Compare a Taco Bell worker with a Chick fil A worker. One does the absolute minimum. The other consistently goes above and beyond. Both are fast food workers. All else being equal, I would much rather hire a former Chick-fil-A worker then just about any fast food worker. I have a list of former co-workers people that know they can call me up an I will either hire them or give them glowing recommendations. Attitude is the major drive.