4 ms·

When Driving, Tires Emit Pollution. and EVs Make the Problem Worse

22 points by helsinkiandrew 4y ago

helsinkiandrew 4y ago
https://archive.ph/PKSyq https://archive.ph/PKSyq
QuadmasterXLII 4y ago
Anyone have a gue$$ why the editor decided to make the title about electric cars?
- avgDev 4y ago
  Probably because of the sheer weight of electrics cars. Tesla model 3 can weigh up to 4250 lbs vs a standard compact car like civic at 3126 lbs. F150 lighting is 6015 lbs vs 4690 lbs that regular one weighs. More weight results in quicker tire wear.
- Fradow 4y ago
  > For decades, tailpipe emissions — both the greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming and the particulates that cause air pollution — have overshadowed the tire problem This is no longer the case with EVs (no tailpipe emissions), so the next thing to tackle is tire pollution. EVs also produce more tire pollution than ICE vehicles because they are heavier (because of the batteries) and accelerate quicker (because electric engines have instant torque).
thechao 4y ago
20% more wear. This is a pretty naked hit piece.
Veedrac 4y ago
Stupid title aside, air pollution is one of the most important issues humanity has faced ever, even ignoring climate change, and it's a terrible oversight that we've focused so little effort on it. One would think after lead that there would be robust infrastructure to manage these things, not one small startup with little traction.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Tires aren't air pollution, I think, it's mostly seen as a microplastic in water/rivers/seas issue as they get washed down drains from the road.
  - Veedrac 4y ago
    It's quite easy to find websites that claim it is, do you have something more authoritative that claims otherwise? Eg. https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations/pollution-from-tire-wear-1000-times-worse-than-exhaust-emissions.html https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations... cites a UK study.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      This is misdirection, in particular the vagueness of 'particulate' in their report, which doesn't reflect the numbers in the UK report they cite, but don't link to. Presumably they counted larger particles, which by weight will dominate, but have less impact on air quality (but a bigger impact on water). Traffic was about 25% of PM2.5 in 1995, combustion was like 90% of that. Of what remains from traffic, tires is about a quarter, equal to brakes, which EVs also eliminate. This is why the legislation focused on the exhaust emissions from combustion, it was a massive single source of the pollution. "Every bit helps" though right? Except PM pollution is global in scope. The Government recently claimed that even removing all the people and activity in the UK wouldn't let them meet a 5ppm target, because of the contributions from global fossil fuel burning getting blown over borders. You can look at the UK government recommendations for things to target. Low hanging fruit are people burning coal and wood in urban areas and shifting to EVs and renewables for cooking and heating.
      - Veedrac 4y ago
        > Traffic was about 25% of PM2.5 in 1995, combustion was like 90% of that. 1995 numbers seem like a poor choice, given engines ran vastly dirtier back then. > "Every bit helps" though right? Except PM pollution is global in scope. The latter point doesn't contradict the former point. Every little bit does help. I am certainly not claiming we should make tire emissions the primary focus of emissions reduction, just that we should care about air quality enough to also tackle tire emissions seriously.

helsinkiandrew 4y ago

https://archive.ph/PKSyq https://archive.ph/PKSyq

QuadmasterXLII 4y ago

Anyone have a gue$$ why the editor decided to make the title about electric cars?

avgDev 4y ago
Probably because of the sheer weight of electrics cars. Tesla model 3 can weigh up to 4250 lbs vs a standard compact car like civic at 3126 lbs. F150 lighting is 6015 lbs vs 4690 lbs that regular one weighs. More weight results in quicker tire wear.
Fradow 4y ago
> For decades, tailpipe emissions — both the greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming and the particulates that cause air pollution — have overshadowed the tire problem This is no longer the case with EVs (no tailpipe emissions), so the next thing to tackle is tire pollution. EVs also produce more tire pollution than ICE vehicles because they are heavier (because of the batteries) and accelerate quicker (because electric engines have instant torque).

thechao 4y ago

20% more wear. This is a pretty naked hit piece.

Veedrac 4y ago

Stupid title aside, air pollution is one of the most important issues humanity has faced ever, even ignoring climate change, and it's a terrible oversight that we've focused so little effort on it. One would think after lead that there would be robust infrastructure to manage these things, not one small startup with little traction.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Tires aren't air pollution, I think, it's mostly seen as a microplastic in water/rivers/seas issue as they get washed down drains from the road.
- Veedrac 4y ago
  It's quite easy to find websites that claim it is, do you have something more authoritative that claims otherwise? Eg. https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations/pollution-from-tire-wear-1000-times-worse-than-exhaust-emissions.html https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations... cites a UK study.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    This is misdirection, in particular the vagueness of 'particulate' in their report, which doesn't reflect the numbers in the UK report they cite, but don't link to. Presumably they counted larger particles, which by weight will dominate, but have less impact on air quality (but a bigger impact on water). Traffic was about 25% of PM2.5 in 1995, combustion was like 90% of that. Of what remains from traffic, tires is about a quarter, equal to brakes, which EVs also eliminate. This is why the legislation focused on the exhaust emissions from combustion, it was a massive single source of the pollution. "Every bit helps" though right? Except PM pollution is global in scope. The Government recently claimed that even removing all the people and activity in the UK wouldn't let them meet a 5ppm target, because of the contributions from global fossil fuel burning getting blown over borders. You can look at the UK government recommendations for things to target. Low hanging fruit are people burning coal and wood in urban areas and shifting to EVs and renewables for cooking and heating.
    - Veedrac 4y ago
      > Traffic was about 25% of PM2.5 in 1995, combustion was like 90% of that. 1995 numbers seem like a poor choice, given engines ran vastly dirtier back then. > "Every bit helps" though right? Except PM pollution is global in scope. The latter point doesn't contradict the former point. Every little bit does help. I am certainly not claiming we should make tire emissions the primary focus of emissions reduction, just that we should care about air quality enough to also tackle tire emissions seriously.