7 ms·

I was one of the folks hit by the massive cancellations in Germany this summer. I'd love this new suggestion. My flight was canceled a month and 5 days ago.

by wheels 4y ago

I was one of the folks hit by the massive cancellations in Germany this summer. I'd love this new suggestion. My flight was canceled a month and 5 days ago. It was to the US and Canada, was canceled 22 hours in advance, and would have been my first time to see my family since the pandemic – more than 3 years. I spent 3 hours on the phone with the airline trying to find a way to my destination. In the end they offered me nothing. I filed for a refund, and the statutory compensation on the day of my cancellation. I haven't received either. The airline has ignored my dispute filing, and the website where I booked hasn't processed the refund. A week ago, I filed a chargeback with my credit card. I haven't received any info on that. Two days ago, I had to spend the time hiring a legal service which processes the statutory EU compensation, but they'll take a third of what I'm due (€600 of the €1800), and say it'll take 2-3 months. The current system does not work. Even if I do in the end get my refund and compensation, I'll come out roughly break-even on costs, lost my summer vacation, and will be down a dozen hours of effort.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
clipper_janosch 4y ago
You should get your full ticket back + the EU compensation - 1/3. No worries, I did this a few years back and the process took a while but I got the money. Also, the EU compensation is rather handsome, especially on a long flight like that, you mention 1800 EUR, how much was the ticket originally?
- wheels 4y ago
  My flights were for me and my kids. Total of €2700. One of the flights was booked separately (because booking together didn't work on any of the websites I tried), though also American Airlines, and I won't get a refund on that. The €1200 that I'll get will only cover the extra missed flight, and my Airbnb. And that doesn't scratch that I had to find new summer vacation plans with my kids on one day's notice. That is not no worries.
  - clipper_janosch 4y ago
    Look, I am sorry this happened, but you should get the total 2700 EUR back + compensation. "though also American Airlines, and I won't get a refund on that" <-- you should double check this, if one of the airports is in the EU you get everything back for your departure flight. https://realworldmachine.com/travel/airline/eu-flight-compensation-calculator/ https://realworldmachine.com/travel/airline/eu-flight-compen... "Flights must either arrive into the EU via an EU-headquartered airline or originate from the EU (regardless of airline headquarters) for the EU Flight Compensation Regulation to be applicable." Obviously they will tell you otherwise. Funny how people call me privileged etc. but you literally fill out a web form with flight number, upload your tickets and the solicitors handle the rest and the money gets dropped into your account within 6 months or so. It's a lot of money, of course the Airlines are going to try to wiggle themselves out of it, so you have to fight them to get your right. I think you will get 2700 EUR back for sure, flight compensation as well and you might even be able to claim for the BnB.
- teh_klev 4y ago
  > No worries, I did this a few years back and the process took a while but I got the money. "No worries", that's perhaps fine if you have access to large amounts of cash or credit to fund replacement flights whilst you wait until the airline finally pulls its finger out. And what then if the replacement flights you booked get cancelled at the last minute? Now you're out thousands of euros. So no, it's not "no worries".
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    I used to hate the word 'privilidge', but it applies here perfectly. Like a person who has spare $10,000 laying around and a lawyer on retainer can't even fathom how this is a problem. Maybe you lost $3000 of tickets for a family flight, and booking replacement tickets will costs 2x as much because you are booking short notice. And maybe if you cant get replacement tickets, now you loose $5,000 of hotel, so now your total losses are 8k. And if you don't know the law and don't have legslly literste friends, maybe you never get compensation Also known as poverty premium
    - javajosh 4y ago
      Players of RTS games will note that this is why you have to build resource storage as well as extraction - storage functions as a "shock absorber" that saves you money in the long run. (A consumer credit line is, for example, a kind of virtual/worse type of storage that is, ironically, not even available unless you already have significant flow.)
      - 3pt14159 4y ago
        Well, it's more that resource storage allows adaptivity rather than being a shock absorber, per se. For example, in the fog of war or the early game we don't know if the enemy is teching, econo-expanding, or rushing. In the mid-game we know an attack is coming, but we're uncertain its unit composition. So in the early game we store some resources while we scout. If we see them teching we can dump everything into military expansion since they'll have neither the army nor the production to counter any attack. Same idea for mid-game: knights -> build pikeman, archers -> build knights. If it were merely about shock absorption we may as well have dumped it all into walls, archers, and castles.
smcl 4y ago
Took me ages to get mine back too - I had flights cancelled on eve of Covid, filed the refund quickly and had to deal with so much trickery from RyanAir. They’d claim I hadn’t submitted it and used some devious practices to encourage me to take a flight voucher instead. The whole process took something like 6 months iirc, every interaction with them I had they were deliberately confusing and evasive.
- ginko 4y ago
  My cancelled 2020 flights I claimed through my travel insurance. I assume my insurance then asked for the money from the airline but that wasn't my problem at that point.
  - smcl 4y ago
    Hm yeah that would've been the smart thing to do
- jen20 4y ago
  This is standard practice for RyanAir. It makes me wonder how they carry out other essential parts of their business, and has led me to refuse to fly on them for well over a decade now.
  - kingofpandora 4y ago
    Making refunds hard is an essential part of their business.
    - jen20 4y ago
      Hence "other" essential parts...
samoa42 4y ago
from another perspective; you get paid to not pollute the planet and do nothing instead. first world problems ...
lozenge 4y ago
The only problem here is the need to get a lawyer and the way it takes three months. When I don't pay a fine in 14 days it doubles. So institute the same thing with a 30 day SLA and remove any paperwork requirement when the flight is cancelled or delayed by the most excessive amount.
xwdv 4y ago
A chargeback should get you the money back and that would be the end of it. It takes 30 days or so. There’s virtually no chance they will be able to prove they provided you the service that you paid for, since the flight was cancelled. The credit card company will then side with the customer.
pelasaco 4y ago
much worse would be they cancel you at the check-in, "sorry, overbooked, have a nice day sir", and because there was "no costs" involved, you can just go home. Hotel and car and etc that you booked for you in US and Canada, it would be gone, no need for compensation. Actually, probably they will have a clause saying that "the booking confirmation is bound to the check-in". That's even written in the text: "The advantages of a PAYF model for corporate travel managers, as BTN Europe previously reported, include not having to chase refunds or pay a TMC to manage this process. There’s also a reduced risk of losing money to airline bankruptcies."
bojan 4y ago
Have you considered getting legal insurance? Here in the Netherlands they are €10-15 a month, and in these times of chatbots, shady webshops and all kinds of services failing, they are sure to pay themselves out.
Izikiel43 4y ago
For the statutory eu compensation you didn’t need to hire anyone, the process is super easy, the airline by law has to have the form online, you submit it, and if they don’t answer in 3 weeks you file the complaint with the faa equivalent in the country you were traveling to, and let the airline know. I had to do it with Icelandair, and once I told them I had filed a complaint with the government they started answering emails. It took like 2 months from start to finish, but I got it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  > and once I told them I had filed a complaint with the government they started answering emails. This still suggests there's a problem - companies can choose to break the law and only start following it when a tiny minority actually reports them to the regulators. The regulation should be changed so that any regulator involvement regarding the matter implies an immediate and significant penalty, so companies are better off giving out refunds directly than waiting for them to complain to the regulator.
- belter 4y ago
  EU Air passenger rights - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-right... EU FAQs - Air passenger rights - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/faq/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-right...
- yunohn 4y ago
  Yeah, this doesn’t always work. I applied for compensation from Lufthansa and they just keep replying with a “Covid times are busy” message despite threatening legal action. In the end, using a service made sure I got my money back.
febed 4y ago
Please name the airline. Did you book the ticket directly on their website or through an agent?

by wheels 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

clipper_janosch 4y ago

You should get your full ticket back + the EU compensation - 1/3. No worries, I did this a few years back and the process took a while but I got the money. Also, the EU compensation is rather handsome, especially on a long flight like that, you mention 1800 EUR, how much was the ticket originally?

wheels 4y ago
My flights were for me and my kids. Total of €2700. One of the flights was booked separately (because booking together didn't work on any of the websites I tried), though also American Airlines, and I won't get a refund on that. The €1200 that I'll get will only cover the extra missed flight, and my Airbnb. And that doesn't scratch that I had to find new summer vacation plans with my kids on one day's notice. That is not no worries.
- clipper_janosch 4y ago
  Look, I am sorry this happened, but you should get the total 2700 EUR back + compensation. "though also American Airlines, and I won't get a refund on that" <-- you should double check this, if one of the airports is in the EU you get everything back for your departure flight. https://realworldmachine.com/travel/airline/eu-flight-compensation-calculator/ https://realworldmachine.com/travel/airline/eu-flight-compen... "Flights must either arrive into the EU via an EU-headquartered airline or originate from the EU (regardless of airline headquarters) for the EU Flight Compensation Regulation to be applicable." Obviously they will tell you otherwise. Funny how people call me privileged etc. but you literally fill out a web form with flight number, upload your tickets and the solicitors handle the rest and the money gets dropped into your account within 6 months or so. It's a lot of money, of course the Airlines are going to try to wiggle themselves out of it, so you have to fight them to get your right. I think you will get 2700 EUR back for sure, flight compensation as well and you might even be able to claim for the BnB.
teh_klev 4y ago
> No worries, I did this a few years back and the process took a while but I got the money. "No worries", that's perhaps fine if you have access to large amounts of cash or credit to fund replacement flights whilst you wait until the airline finally pulls its finger out. And what then if the replacement flights you booked get cancelled at the last minute? Now you're out thousands of euros. So no, it's not "no worries".
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  I used to hate the word 'privilidge', but it applies here perfectly. Like a person who has spare $10,000 laying around and a lawyer on retainer can't even fathom how this is a problem. Maybe you lost $3000 of tickets for a family flight, and booking replacement tickets will costs 2x as much because you are booking short notice. And maybe if you cant get replacement tickets, now you loose $5,000 of hotel, so now your total losses are 8k. And if you don't know the law and don't have legslly literste friends, maybe you never get compensation Also known as poverty premium
  - javajosh 4y ago
    Players of RTS games will note that this is why you have to build resource storage as well as extraction - storage functions as a "shock absorber" that saves you money in the long run. (A consumer credit line is, for example, a kind of virtual/worse type of storage that is, ironically, not even available unless you already have significant flow.)
    - 3pt14159 4y ago
      Well, it's more that resource storage allows adaptivity rather than being a shock absorber, per se. For example, in the fog of war or the early game we don't know if the enemy is teching, econo-expanding, or rushing. In the mid-game we know an attack is coming, but we're uncertain its unit composition. So in the early game we store some resources while we scout. If we see them teching we can dump everything into military expansion since they'll have neither the army nor the production to counter any attack. Same idea for mid-game: knights -> build pikeman, archers -> build knights. If it were merely about shock absorption we may as well have dumped it all into walls, archers, and castles.

smcl 4y ago

Took me ages to get mine back too - I had flights cancelled on eve of Covid, filed the refund quickly and had to deal with so much trickery from RyanAir. They’d claim I hadn’t submitted it and used some devious practices to encourage me to take a flight voucher instead. The whole process took something like 6 months iirc, every interaction with them I had they were deliberately confusing and evasive.

ginko 4y ago
My cancelled 2020 flights I claimed through my travel insurance. I assume my insurance then asked for the money from the airline but that wasn't my problem at that point.
- smcl 4y ago
  Hm yeah that would've been the smart thing to do
jen20 4y ago
This is standard practice for RyanAir. It makes me wonder how they carry out other essential parts of their business, and has led me to refuse to fly on them for well over a decade now.
- kingofpandora 4y ago
  Making refunds hard is an essential part of their business.
  - jen20 4y ago
    Hence "other" essential parts...

samoa42 4y ago

from another perspective; you get paid to not pollute the planet and do nothing instead. first world problems ...

lozenge 4y ago

The only problem here is the need to get a lawyer and the way it takes three months. When I don't pay a fine in 14 days it doubles. So institute the same thing with a 30 day SLA and remove any paperwork requirement when the flight is cancelled or delayed by the most excessive amount.

xwdv 4y ago

A chargeback should get you the money back and that would be the end of it. It takes 30 days or so. There’s virtually no chance they will be able to prove they provided you the service that you paid for, since the flight was cancelled. The credit card company will then side with the customer.

pelasaco 4y ago

much worse would be they cancel you at the check-in, "sorry, overbooked, have a nice day sir", and because there was "no costs" involved, you can just go home. Hotel and car and etc that you booked for you in US and Canada, it would be gone, no need for compensation. Actually, probably they will have a clause saying that "the booking confirmation is bound to the check-in". That's even written in the text: "The advantages of a PAYF model for corporate travel managers, as BTN Europe previously reported, include not having to chase refunds or pay a TMC to manage this process. There’s also a reduced risk of losing money to airline bankruptcies."

bojan 4y ago

Have you considered getting legal insurance? Here in the Netherlands they are €10-15 a month, and in these times of chatbots, shady webshops and all kinds of services failing, they are sure to pay themselves out.

Izikiel43 4y ago

For the statutory eu compensation you didn’t need to hire anyone, the process is super easy, the airline by law has to have the form online, you submit it, and if they don’t answer in 3 weeks you file the complaint with the faa equivalent in the country you were traveling to, and let the airline know. I had to do it with Icelandair, and once I told them I had filed a complaint with the government they started answering emails. It took like 2 months from start to finish, but I got it.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Nextgrid 4y ago
> and once I told them I had filed a complaint with the government they started answering emails. This still suggests there's a problem - companies can choose to break the law and only start following it when a tiny minority actually reports them to the regulators. The regulation should be changed so that any regulator involvement regarding the matter implies an immediate and significant penalty, so companies are better off giving out refunds directly than waiting for them to complain to the regulator.
belter 4y ago
EU Air passenger rights - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-right... EU FAQs - Air passenger rights - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air/faq/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-right...
yunohn 4y ago
Yeah, this doesn’t always work. I applied for compensation from Lufthansa and they just keep replying with a “Covid times are busy” message despite threatening legal action. In the end, using a service made sure I got my money back.

febed 4y ago

Please name the airline. Did you book the ticket directly on their website or through an agent?