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>The UK is getting hit much harder than other countries. I don't understand this narrative. Germany will have its gas supply from Russia literally turned off f

>The UK is getting hit much harder than other countries. I don't understand this narrative. Germany will have its gas supply from Russia literally turned off for the next three days! >but for heating I think they're about 50% gas while in the UK it's more like 80% I saw that Guardian article too! A further 25% of Germans heat their homes with oil, and another 14% use district heating (which will be fossil-fuel powered). Germany imports 98% of its oil, 95% of its gas, and a large amount of its coal, with a total of 63% of all energy being imported. On the upside, the premature end of this age of exceptionally unreasonably cheap energy will hopefully teach us all a thing or two about what sustainability really looks like.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
The problem is gas (and electricity) are a market and have prices set by that market. If a British company can make more money shipping gas out of the country, they are going to. If a Norwegian company can make more selling to someone other than the UK, then they will. And those profits go to the Norwegian government, which isn't the case in Britain. There are some limits due to transport but countries with more links to suppliers and storage can ride it out better even before getting into political responses.
- rewrewrewqf 4y ago
  I understand that. However, the political aspect will be the dominant factor. You can have all the links to international suppliers, but it won't help if they won't sell to you. Russia has already decided to f** with Europe, and in a way that I can't see making any (short-term) financial sense for their own economy. France may decide to stop exporting quite so much of its nuclear-generated electricity. The UK could decide that it needs to slow exports of its gas, and keep it back for its own citizens. Germany will basically have to turn back to its own brown coal reserves for electricity generation, although that won't help its citizens heat their homes.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    None of that really helps though, it's just a type of "Beggar-thy-neighbour“ game theory failure: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_thy_neighbour https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_thy_neighbour Working together obviously makes it easier for everyone. But we have whole political parties built on ignoring that principle and blaming foreigners for everything. What does help, is everyone using less natural gas. edit: some green Tory ideas that accept that reality: https://www.cen.uk.com/press/2022/8/16/green-tories-propose-industry-led-plan-to-combat-winter-gas-crisis https://www.cen.uk.com/press/2022/8/16/green-tories-propose-...
    - rewrewrewqf 4y ago
      >it's just a type of "Beggar-thy-neighbour“ game theory failure Funny how much international politics looks like a "game theory failure", right? If only we could get along! I'm mostly looking at this from the perspective of the "begger" - hence me originally pointing out that, in the current narrative of countries that are doing badly with energy geopolitics, Germany is in much bigger trouble than the UK. You can be the nicest country in the world, but you can't really predict or change what others will do. For that matter, why should other EU countries bail out (in the form of energy exports) another country that has become absurdly reliant on energy imports from a hostile neighbour? >What does help, is everyone using less natural gas. Humans have burned stuff to heat their homes since the dawn of humanity - it's hard to see what could possibly replace that, unless we go nuclear. Heat-pumps require quite specific circumstances to function efficiently.
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        We don't have to replace it, well not in the short term. Just turning thermostats down a little, increasing insulation, stopping doing low value things with gas that we don't need to do, shifting electricity use to times when we have wind/nuclear available etc. is enough to ride this winter out. And the whole point of "begger thy neighbour" is that it hurts you. So saying "I still really want to punish my neighbour because this is his fault" is literally punishing yourself. It doesn't make sense. As I said, not a technical problem, a political problem.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

The problem is gas (and electricity) are a market and have prices set by that market. If a British company can make more money shipping gas out of the country, they are going to. If a Norwegian company can make more selling to someone other than the UK, then they will. And those profits go to the Norwegian government, which isn't the case in Britain. There are some limits due to transport but countries with more links to suppliers and storage can ride it out better even before getting into political responses.

rewrewrewqf 4y ago
I understand that. However, the political aspect will be the dominant factor. You can have all the links to international suppliers, but it won't help if they won't sell to you. Russia has already decided to f** with Europe, and in a way that I can't see making any (short-term) financial sense for their own economy. France may decide to stop exporting quite so much of its nuclear-generated electricity. The UK could decide that it needs to slow exports of its gas, and keep it back for its own citizens. Germany will basically have to turn back to its own brown coal reserves for electricity generation, although that won't help its citizens heat their homes.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  None of that really helps though, it's just a type of "Beggar-thy-neighbour“ game theory failure: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_thy_neighbour https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_thy_neighbour Working together obviously makes it easier for everyone. But we have whole political parties built on ignoring that principle and blaming foreigners for everything. What does help, is everyone using less natural gas. edit: some green Tory ideas that accept that reality: https://www.cen.uk.com/press/2022/8/16/green-tories-propose-industry-led-plan-to-combat-winter-gas-crisis https://www.cen.uk.com/press/2022/8/16/green-tories-propose-...
  - rewrewrewqf 4y ago
    >it's just a type of "Beggar-thy-neighbour“ game theory failure Funny how much international politics looks like a "game theory failure", right? If only we could get along! I'm mostly looking at this from the perspective of the "begger" - hence me originally pointing out that, in the current narrative of countries that are doing badly with energy geopolitics, Germany is in much bigger trouble than the UK. You can be the nicest country in the world, but you can't really predict or change what others will do. For that matter, why should other EU countries bail out (in the form of energy exports) another country that has become absurdly reliant on energy imports from a hostile neighbour? >What does help, is everyone using less natural gas. Humans have burned stuff to heat their homes since the dawn of humanity - it's hard to see what could possibly replace that, unless we go nuclear. Heat-pumps require quite specific circumstances to function efficiently.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      We don't have to replace it, well not in the short term. Just turning thermostats down a little, increasing insulation, stopping doing low value things with gas that we don't need to do, shifting electricity use to times when we have wind/nuclear available etc. is enough to ride this winter out. And the whole point of "begger thy neighbour" is that it hurts you. So saying "I still really want to punish my neighbour because this is his fault" is literally punishing yourself. It doesn't make sense. As I said, not a technical problem, a political problem.