6 ms·

A couple of weeks ago I was on a flight with ryanair in Berlin. We were about to enter the "plane waiting area", you know where Ryanair herds all the people bef

A couple of weeks ago I was on a flight with ryanair in Berlin. We were about to enter the "plane waiting area", you know where Ryanair herds all the people before they go onto a bus. In front of me was a couple in the beginning of their 20s and none of them had a credit card or even debit card on them, because they had flown this flight a lot of times and they simply brought cash. Well... their bag was slightly oversized and of course Ryainair wanted them to pay for it. So far so good, but Ryanair ONLY accepts credit cards at this point to pay for your extra luggage, so the flight of the couple was just about to bekome much more stressfull (remember this is 15 minutes before actually leaving with the plane and you literally have nowhere to do it in cash). If I had not seen that exchange and traded cash for putting my card down, that couple would have had one sad vacation of two weeks. All in all, airports are not equipped for this influx of "i will pay right now", because simply they are understaffed as is.

stavros 4y ago
If there's a place that doesn't accept cash, it's the place's fault. Cash is what's legal tender, credit cards are the convenience. The airport is absolutely in the wrong here.
- jhoelzel 4y ago
  While true, the Lady at the desk still would not have let them pass. and once the plane is gone...
  - stavros 4y ago
    Yeah, certainly, there isn't much they could do than complain afterwards (probably fruitlessly), sadly.
- ddevault 4y ago
  Businesses should be required by law to accept cash for in-person transactions. Philadelphia was the first US city to ban cashless stores a couple of years ago and it was a great move for convenience and equity.
  - stavros 4y ago
    I agree with the former, but not the latter. It's fine if stores accept credit cards, as long as they accept cash too. Hell, I wouldn't be against adding the cc fee on top of the price, so cash users don't need to subsidize cc users.
    - ddevault 4y ago
      You misunderstand. Banning cashless stores does not mean banning cashless transactions altogether. It means requiring cash payments to be an option.
    - NeoTar 4y ago
      > cash users don't need to subsidize cc users. I doubt this is the case; it's easy to see the costs associated with taking a credit card because they are all upfront - e.g. a card may charge 1-5% plus a fixed fee. However the costs associated with cash happen after the transaction and are extensive: * Cost of the time spent 'cashing up' - i.e. reconciling the cash in a till with the transactions made, * Cost of the time spent taking cash to a bank, or the direct cost for a cash collection business, * Losses due to mistakes in making change, * Losses due to fake currency, * Losses due to staff-theft, * Losses due to robbery, I can imagine these easily adding up to some small percentage of the costs of accepting cash, comparable to the cost of a CC transaction.
      - goosedragons 4y ago
        1-5% of every transaction and bigger transactions have a bigger cut taken. With cash a lot of those things you mention are rare events and I'd imagine decent insurance covers or pretty much fixed costs. Credit cards also have problems with customers using stolen CCs, doing fraudulent chargebacks, machines go down etc. It's pretty well known that the high transaction fees needed for CC companies to offer rewards like cashback do impact prices and cash users are effectively subsidizing CC users.
        closewith 4y ago
- mellavora 4y ago
  > The airport is absolutely in the wrong here. Nitpick-- it is a RyanAir policy, not an airport policy. RyanAir was absolutely in the wrong here. I've been burned one time too many by RyanAir's deceptive pricing schemes.
  - stavros 4y ago
    Ah, right. I'm not sure whose fault it was, as eg the gate is the responsibility of the airport (and, if I recall correctly, has airport employees, rather than airline).
    - realityking 4y ago
      The staff at the gate is often (not always; sometimes they’re airline employees) a ground handling company contracted by the airline. They do their job based on the policies of the airlines when it comes to ticketing, rebooking, luggage rules, etc.
  - paganel 4y ago
    More generally, whenever the words "RyanAir" and "fault" show up in the same sentence/extended phrase, in 99% of the cases the "fault" is directly connected to "RyanAir", no matter who the other subjects of that extended phrase might be (clients, airports, even government entities). Though they (RyanAir) sure do have some very cheap flights, that's why lots of us accept being their reluctant clients.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    To be fair to RyanAir, they’re extremely upfront that they’re a budget carrier and they even joke about their fees and things on social media. It seems pretty honest to me. You get what they say you’ll get.
- closewith 4y ago
  While Euros are legal tender in the Eurozone, only France enforces universal acceptance. The only bloc-wide requirement is that public entities providing essential services to citizens cannot refuse cash payments without sufficient reason.
  - V__ 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure more countrys have similar laws. For example every place in Germany has to accept cash. Except when paying with more then 50 coins Except when paying with coins over 200€ (bills are fine) Except when clearly contractually precluded beforehand.
    - closewith 4y ago
      That’s certainly not true in Germany. Even when German plaintiffs brought a case against the German broadcaster Hessische Rundfunk in the CJEU (2010/191/EU), the court ruled that cash payments could be limited in the public interest even to public entities (although they did uphold the plaintiffs right to pay in cash in that case). Wherever you are quoting from almost certainly applies to creditors, not vendors in general.
      - V__ 4y ago
        I know that case, and you are right. However, no normal vendor would fall under the "public interest" argument made by the courts.
        closewith 4y ago
        Normal vendors are not required by the Regulation to accept cash, only public entities. Only France has a national law requiring universal acceptance. There is no such EU requirement.
- Mordisquitos 4y ago
  Morally you are right and I agree with you, I think it's utterly repugnant that the airline won't accept cash in a context where there's no reason not to and the situation is so stressful for the passenger. However, the concept of "legal tender" is very limited and unfortunately could not be used here to put pressure on Ryanair. Cash being legal tender only means that it must be accepted as settlement for an incurred debt, which was not the case here. What's more, I seem to remember that technically it only means it in the context of legal disputes, such that the cash will always settle the debt if deposited at the corresponding court (or something like that).
  - stavros 4y ago
    You're right, I didn't mean that legal tender was applicable here, my point was more that cash is "endorsed" legally, as legal tender, whereas credit cards are just some third-party service.
- MartinodF 4y ago
  Card-only is way more common than you think in some countries, northern Europe in particular in my experience.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Cash is not always legal tender. (For example Scottish cash is not legal tender, it’s just accepted by convention.) and anyway ‘legal tender’ doesn’t mean a business has to trade with you if they don’t want to unless they’re settling a debt in court.
  - TrueGeek 4y ago
    I had the exact same experience at the Delta counter in Atlanta. A Frenchman was having trouble understanding that he couldn't pay cash to check his bag. We paid for him (Amex reimburses us for Delta fees so we didn't take his cash) but otherwise he wouldn't have been able to fly. Previously, I had always believed that in the US it was a law that places had to accept cash.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    A number of years ago now, I had some RBS notes in my wallet and a young clerk in a London store told me she couldn't take them. (Her manager quickly came over and corrected her.) I did also have to get some older English paper notes exchanged at a bank for newer plastic ones.
- CalRobert 4y ago
  Completely agree but more and more places are refusing cash. Just spent a week in Amsterdam and several places were card-only, and I've noticed that my nearby "card or cash" parking fee machines have had the cash function broken for ages..
  - mogrim 4y ago
    Not only that, but a whole load of the services in Amsterdam will only accept Dutch debit cards. Which is just great when you've got a Spanish credit card (that you've used all over the world, just not in Amsterdam...)
    - CalRobert 4y ago
      Yeah that was really annoying with an Irish credit and debit card in Albert Heijn (and elsewhere) - though at least there I could usually find some way to give them money.
- scarface74 4y ago
  People say this all the time. But it’s not true. Try checking into a hotel, getting a rental car without a credit card and see how far you get. Alternatively, try mailing cash to Amazon to buy something. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm > There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
lwde 4y ago
In germany there are still required to take cash, but yah good luck discussing that with Ryanair...
herbst 4y ago
I once flew from Switzerland to Thailand with Eurowings. Direct. I've had: US Dollars, Swiss Franks and Thai baat on me. As well as a digital credit card. For some reason the airline would only accept Euros and Physical credit cards. I literally got 3 small bottles of water for free and 1 beer my neighbor invited me on the whole 14 hour flight.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
That sounds... overly complicated (from Ryanair's thing); they have the customers' details (passport, address, payment details), just send them a bill or have them sign a promise of payment and send them on their way.
- jhoelzel 4y ago
  Well apperently this is based on "covid". Even on their planes here, you will not be able to buy anything with cash.
m4ki 4y ago
I had a similar situation with Ryanair. It wasn't the baggage I had to pay for, it was the check-in, which I had already done the night before and even had a confirmation email, but they just wouldn't even look at my phone. Then there was the credit card issue, and I had to run through the airport asking people to pay for me in exchange for cash. You could say it was pretty stressful since the gate was closing in 30 minutes.
mihaaly 4y ago
The difference is when they charge the card you used for reserving the ticket. On booking or later. Forget this 'paying for your extra bag' kind of thing which is a different matter.

stavros 4y ago

If there's a place that doesn't accept cash, it's the place's fault. Cash is what's legal tender, credit cards are the convenience. The airport is absolutely in the wrong here.

jhoelzel 4y ago
While true, the Lady at the desk still would not have let them pass. and once the plane is gone...
- stavros 4y ago
  Yeah, certainly, there isn't much they could do than complain afterwards (probably fruitlessly), sadly.
ddevault 4y ago
Businesses should be required by law to accept cash for in-person transactions. Philadelphia was the first US city to ban cashless stores a couple of years ago and it was a great move for convenience and equity.
- stavros 4y ago
  I agree with the former, but not the latter. It's fine if stores accept credit cards, as long as they accept cash too. Hell, I wouldn't be against adding the cc fee on top of the price, so cash users don't need to subsidize cc users.
  - ddevault 4y ago
    You misunderstand. Banning cashless stores does not mean banning cashless transactions altogether. It means requiring cash payments to be an option.
  - NeoTar 4y ago
    > cash users don't need to subsidize cc users. I doubt this is the case; it's easy to see the costs associated with taking a credit card because they are all upfront - e.g. a card may charge 1-5% plus a fixed fee. However the costs associated with cash happen after the transaction and are extensive: * Cost of the time spent 'cashing up' - i.e. reconciling the cash in a till with the transactions made, * Cost of the time spent taking cash to a bank, or the direct cost for a cash collection business, * Losses due to mistakes in making change, * Losses due to fake currency, * Losses due to staff-theft, * Losses due to robbery, I can imagine these easily adding up to some small percentage of the costs of accepting cash, comparable to the cost of a CC transaction.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      1-5% of every transaction and bigger transactions have a bigger cut taken. With cash a lot of those things you mention are rare events and I'd imagine decent insurance covers or pretty much fixed costs. Credit cards also have problems with customers using stolen CCs, doing fraudulent chargebacks, machines go down etc. It's pretty well known that the high transaction fees needed for CC companies to offer rewards like cashback do impact prices and cash users are effectively subsidizing CC users.
      - closewith 4y ago
mellavora 4y ago
> The airport is absolutely in the wrong here. Nitpick-- it is a RyanAir policy, not an airport policy. RyanAir was absolutely in the wrong here. I've been burned one time too many by RyanAir's deceptive pricing schemes.
- stavros 4y ago
  Ah, right. I'm not sure whose fault it was, as eg the gate is the responsibility of the airport (and, if I recall correctly, has airport employees, rather than airline).
  - realityking 4y ago
    The staff at the gate is often (not always; sometimes they’re airline employees) a ground handling company contracted by the airline. They do their job based on the policies of the airlines when it comes to ticketing, rebooking, luggage rules, etc.
- paganel 4y ago
  More generally, whenever the words "RyanAir" and "fault" show up in the same sentence/extended phrase, in 99% of the cases the "fault" is directly connected to "RyanAir", no matter who the other subjects of that extended phrase might be (clients, airports, even government entities). Though they (RyanAir) sure do have some very cheap flights, that's why lots of us accept being their reluctant clients.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  To be fair to RyanAir, they’re extremely upfront that they’re a budget carrier and they even joke about their fees and things on social media. It seems pretty honest to me. You get what they say you’ll get.
closewith 4y ago
While Euros are legal tender in the Eurozone, only France enforces universal acceptance. The only bloc-wide requirement is that public entities providing essential services to citizens cannot refuse cash payments without sufficient reason.
- V__ 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure more countrys have similar laws. For example every place in Germany has to accept cash. Except when paying with more then 50 coins Except when paying with coins over 200€ (bills are fine) Except when clearly contractually precluded beforehand.
  - closewith 4y ago
    That’s certainly not true in Germany. Even when German plaintiffs brought a case against the German broadcaster Hessische Rundfunk in the CJEU (2010/191/EU), the court ruled that cash payments could be limited in the public interest even to public entities (although they did uphold the plaintiffs right to pay in cash in that case). Wherever you are quoting from almost certainly applies to creditors, not vendors in general.
    - V__ 4y ago
      I know that case, and you are right. However, no normal vendor would fall under the "public interest" argument made by the courts.
      - closewith 4y ago
        Normal vendors are not required by the Regulation to accept cash, only public entities. Only France has a national law requiring universal acceptance. There is no such EU requirement.
Mordisquitos 4y ago
Morally you are right and I agree with you, I think it's utterly repugnant that the airline won't accept cash in a context where there's no reason not to and the situation is so stressful for the passenger. However, the concept of "legal tender" is very limited and unfortunately could not be used here to put pressure on Ryanair. Cash being legal tender only means that it must be accepted as settlement for an incurred debt, which was not the case here. What's more, I seem to remember that technically it only means it in the context of legal disputes, such that the cash will always settle the debt if deposited at the corresponding court (or something like that).
- stavros 4y ago
  You're right, I didn't mean that legal tender was applicable here, my point was more that cash is "endorsed" legally, as legal tender, whereas credit cards are just some third-party service.
MartinodF 4y ago
Card-only is way more common than you think in some countries, northern Europe in particular in my experience.
chrisseaton 4y ago
Cash is not always legal tender. (For example Scottish cash is not legal tender, it’s just accepted by convention.) and anyway ‘legal tender’ doesn’t mean a business has to trade with you if they don’t want to unless they’re settling a debt in court.
- TrueGeek 4y ago
  I had the exact same experience at the Delta counter in Atlanta. A Frenchman was having trouble understanding that he couldn't pay cash to check his bag. We paid for him (Amex reimburses us for Delta fees so we didn't take his cash) but otherwise he wouldn't have been able to fly. Previously, I had always believed that in the US it was a law that places had to accept cash.
- ghaff 4y ago
  A number of years ago now, I had some RBS notes in my wallet and a young clerk in a London store told me she couldn't take them. (Her manager quickly came over and corrected her.) I did also have to get some older English paper notes exchanged at a bank for newer plastic ones.
CalRobert 4y ago
Completely agree but more and more places are refusing cash. Just spent a week in Amsterdam and several places were card-only, and I've noticed that my nearby "card or cash" parking fee machines have had the cash function broken for ages..
- mogrim 4y ago
  Not only that, but a whole load of the services in Amsterdam will only accept Dutch debit cards. Which is just great when you've got a Spanish credit card (that you've used all over the world, just not in Amsterdam...)
  - CalRobert 4y ago
    Yeah that was really annoying with an Irish credit and debit card in Albert Heijn (and elsewhere) - though at least there I could usually find some way to give them money.
scarface74 4y ago
People say this all the time. But it’s not true. Try checking into a hotel, getting a rental car without a credit card and see how far you get. Alternatively, try mailing cash to Amazon to buy something. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm > There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

lwde 4y ago

In germany there are still required to take cash, but yah good luck discussing that with Ryanair...

herbst 4y ago

I once flew from Switzerland to Thailand with Eurowings. Direct. I've had: US Dollars, Swiss Franks and Thai baat on me. As well as a digital credit card. For some reason the airline would only accept Euros and Physical credit cards. I literally got 3 small bottles of water for free and 1 beer my neighbor invited me on the whole 14 hour flight.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

That sounds... overly complicated (from Ryanair's thing); they have the customers' details (passport, address, payment details), just send them a bill or have them sign a promise of payment and send them on their way.

jhoelzel 4y ago
Well apperently this is based on "covid". Even on their planes here, you will not be able to buy anything with cash.

m4ki 4y ago

I had a similar situation with Ryanair. It wasn't the baggage I had to pay for, it was the check-in, which I had already done the night before and even had a confirmation email, but they just wouldn't even look at my phone. Then there was the credit card issue, and I had to run through the airport asking people to pay for me in exchange for cash. You could say it was pretty stressful since the gate was closing in 30 minutes.

mihaaly 4y ago

The difference is when they charge the card you used for reserving the ticket. On booking or later. Forget this 'paying for your extra bag' kind of thing which is a different matter.